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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Arkhandus" data-source="post: 2256691" data-attributes="member: 13966">So......it looks like this thread has become a lot of pointless hate-bashing between those who deign to consider themselves the only "true" roleplayers and those who actually enjoy dungeons.......Anyone who cannot see that wargaming/dungeoncrawling and the roleplaying hobby are intrinsically linked, and indeed complementary to eachother, is a dufus.  Sure they aren't necessary to one another, but roleplayers and wargamers do often have similar interests and similarly lively imaginations and enthusiasms.  The roleplaying hobby lends itself to expanding and promoting the wargaming hobby, and vice versa.  You cannot say that your way of having fun with a hobby is superior to someone else's way of having fun with the same hobby just because their way is somewhat different.  One person's preference for wargaming or dungeoncrawling does not make them inferior or superior to someone else who has a preference for "true" roleplaying, each has a different reason for playing the game and each has a different kind of enjoyment they seek out of it, because some people are more or less stressed than others, and some already have much too much work to do outside their freetime.Neither roleplay nor "rollplay" is superior, they are both merely tastes, different sides of the same coin, and bashing on one or the other only gets more people to hate you for being a stubborn jerk who can't let bygones be bygones.  Roleplaying as a hobby developed from wargaming, because elements of both excite the imagination and bring enjoyment to hobbyists.  Playing games like Warhammer or Battletech or MageKnight can stoke the imagination, and make one eager to delve deeper into the fantasy backgrounds of those games, becoming a roleplayer.It does not make the wargames any more "primitive" or "childish", they can be quite complex and involved for those who want them to be so.  Wargaming, and dungeoncrawling, are good for spending an hour or three or whatever and just enjoying yourself by playing the game, for that's all these hobbies are, games.  Not everyone wants to put in hours upon hours working on a character, campaign, or whatever, because people have enough work to do in their lives, sometimes we just want to play a game and relax without having to spend hours ahead of time working on preparing it.  That doesn't mean you can't do that with wargaming or dungeoncrawls, they can be just as involved and deeply developed as the gamer wants to make them in their preparation and play.  But it is stupid arrogance indeed to declare someone inferior, primitive, or childish just because they don't want to put in hours of work before playing a game, for the sake of enjoying the moment while they can.I hate munchkins and powergamers as much as any fellow roleplayer when I'm trying to DM/GM or play in an RPG game with other roleplayers, but only because munchkins and powergamers are trying to insert their wargaming into my roleplay when I'm presently of a roleplaying mindset, and thus they are disrupting my suspension of disbelief for the moment and distracting the group; but as often as not, I'd rather play Warhammer, MageKnight, Battletech, or a good dungeoncrawl adventure instead.  I don't prefer one hobby over the other, but it can be disruptive to try mixing the two improperly, without forethought; I'd be happy to prepare a campaign/adventure/module/whatever that works fine with both playstyles together, but most DMs/GMs don't have both styles in mind when they start a campaign.  Thus they look down on powergamers and munchkins, when really they should just be asking those folks to find a group better-suited to their playstyle, or instead set a separate gametime up for playing dungeoncrawls and wargames.  Similarly, I'm sure a dungeoncrawler or wargamer wouldn't want some roleplayer messing up their wargame or dungeoncrawl when they're just trying to have an hour or two of fun.Ack, out of time, my last few sentences probably come off as too abrasive or anti-dungeoncrawler or something, but no time now to fix that; gotta go.  Just stop the hatin', though!  {:^DPS: not directed at J. Dyal in particular, so don't go assuming such, I don't mean offense</blockquote>

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