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<blockquote data-quote="Ancalagon" data-source="post: 8779331" data-attributes="member: 23">(I'm going to be using the term fighter, but also applies to a paladin and some other &quot;warrior&quot; concepts).There has been a lot of discussion how in 5e the shield and weapon using fighter is a bit... underwhelming... when compared to other options.&nbsp; This is mainly due to limited feat support: I'm doing 1d8+7 with my sword and dueling fighting style fighter, while the PAM/GWM is doing massive damage.What if this was... on purpose?&nbsp; Or if it's not on purpose, what if this was a &quot;happy accident?&quot;If we look at a featless game, sword and board is actually somewhat better - if you take dueling fighting style, your damage output is basically the same as a 2 handed weapon and you have a shield!So in a game with feats, because you really can't take things to improve your fighting style (there is shield master but it's... decent, not great?), you can take... whatever feat you want!&nbsp; Or just increase your stats if you don't like feats.&nbsp; You don't feel the &quot;pressure&quot; to take those &quot;important&quot; combat feats because they are simply not meaningful to you.I once made a dex-built melee fighter with shield and sword, and for feats by the end of the campaign I had ritual caster, chef, lucky ... was my PC as hard hitting as he could have been?&nbsp; No, but he was very versatile - a better rounded adventurer vs a mere DPS machine.&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm sure there are many other example of fun and useful combos a PC could have when they aren't &quot;forced&quot; to take PAM/GWM or SS/CE....EDIT:&nbsp; to be clear:&nbsp; Sword and Shield is a bit better to compensate for the lack of feats</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ancalagon, post: 8779331, member: 23"] (I'm going to be using the term fighter, but also applies to a paladin and some other "warrior" concepts). There has been a lot of discussion how in 5e the shield and weapon using fighter is a bit... underwhelming... when compared to other options. This is mainly due to limited feat support: I'm doing 1d8+7 with my sword and dueling fighting style fighter, while the PAM/GWM is doing massive damage. What if this was... on purpose? Or if it's not on purpose, what if this was a "happy accident?" If we look at a featless game, sword and board is actually [I]somewhat better[/I] - if you take dueling fighting style, your damage output is basically the same as a 2 handed weapon [I]and[/I] you have a shield! So in a game [I]with[/I] feats, because you really can't take things to improve your fighting style (there is shield master but it's... decent, not great?), you can take... whatever feat you want! Or just increase your stats if you don't like feats. You don't feel the "pressure" to take those "important" combat feats because they are simply not meaningful to you. I once made a dex-built melee fighter with shield and sword, and for feats by the end of the campaign I had ritual caster, chef, lucky ... was my PC as hard hitting as he could have been? No, but he was [I]very[/I] versatile - a better rounded [I]adventurer[/I] vs a mere DPS machine. I'm sure there are many other example of fun [I]and[/I] useful combos a PC could have when they aren't "forced" to take PAM/GWM or SS/CE.... [B]EDIT: to be clear: Sword and Shield is a bit better to compensate for the lack of feats[/B] [/QUOTE]

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