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Have we rebalanced the Champion Yet?
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<blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 7943279" data-attributes="member: 72555"><p>Elven Accuracy is also awesome on a crit-fisher build.</p><p></p><p>If (1) a large % of your damage is encounter/daily after a hit, (2) you have a 19-20 crit range, (3) you get advantage easily, (4) you have elven accuracy, each of these multiplies with each other, and (5) you can swing a lot, these all scale really well.</p><p></p><p>Gloom 3 is "an extra swing per action".</p><p>Fighter 2 is "two actions".</p><p>Champion 3 or Hex 1 is "19-20 crit range".</p><p>Elven Accuracy is "make advantage awesome".</p><p>Samurai 3 or Assasin 3 is "easy advantage".</p><p>Paladin 2 or Warlock or BM or whispers or ... "rest-based damage budget that can crit after you hit".</p><p></p><p>These all multiply together.</p><p></p><p>In these cases, a full class level to get a 19-20 crit range is worth taking. And an ASI (hence a feat) is a middling level ability.</p><p></p><p>The real trick is getting these multipling components online faster.</p><p></p><p>For a crit fisher:</p><p>Action surge: x2</p><p>Extra attack: x2, Gloom (3rd attack): x1.5 (or vice versa).</p><p>19-20 crit range: x2 crits.</p><p>Advantage: 1.9x crits.</p><p>Trip-vantage: x1.43 crits.</p><p></p><p>2x*2x*1.5x*2x*1.9x*1.43x = 32.604x crits</p><p></p><p>Strip out a component, like 19-20 crit range, and your crit count is basically halved.</p><p></p><p>You'll note that even on this build, trip-vantage is not as key as 19-20 crit range.</p><p></p><p>You go from 0.05 crits/round to 1.63 crits/round. This 2.6x's the ROI on per-encounter/per-day smite-likes.</p><p></p><p>Now, hexblade has the problem that the combo is 1/day. The alternative is Champion.</p><p></p><p>So yes, this build would probably burn a feat for 19-20 crit range, especially if it could get a casting level with that ASI instead of having to take Champion 3. Ie, Gloom 4,5 is an ASI, an extra attack, and a caster level. That could be better than Champion 3,4,5 is for this build.</p><p></p><p>Normally this build needs 1 feat (elven accuracy). With 19-20 crit range as a feat it needs 2.</p><p></p><p>Fighter 2/Gloom 3/Paladin 2 is the base. Now we need 2 feats and extra attack, and as many spell casting levels as we can get, or Fighter 3, one feat.</p><p></p><p>Champion 3/Gloom 5/Paladin 2 with Elven Accuracy is online; it has caster level 3. It then goes sorcerer X to fuel the smites.</p><p></p><p>Fighter 2/Gloom 4/Paladin 5 is 1 level later, and has caster level 4. It can go Paladin 6 for caster level 5 and saving throw aura, then sorcerer X.</p><p></p><p>Champion 3/Gloom 5/Paladin 2/Sorcerer X=10 is caster level 13.</p><p>Fighter 2/Gloom 4/Paladin 6/Sorcerer X=8 is caster level 13, and has cha to all saves. So this traded is 1 feat for "+cha to all saves for myself and all allies within 10'", which is a pretty solid trade.</p><p></p><p>Crap, I forgot easy advantage.</p><p></p><p>Samurai 3/Gloom 4/Paladin 6/Sorcerer X=7 is caster level 13, and has cha to all saves. So this traded is 1 feat for "+cha to all saves for myself and all allies within 10'", which is a pretty solid trade.</p><p></p><p>It comes online at Samurai 3/Gloom 4/Paladin 5 (level 12). It probably starts as a single-classed Paladin, and needs 13 str/wis/dex/cha to multiclass (ouch).</p><p></p><p>TL;DR: I can see builds that would take 19-20 crit range as a full feat.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="NotAYakk, post: 7943279, member: 72555"] Elven Accuracy is also awesome on a crit-fisher build. If (1) a large % of your damage is encounter/daily after a hit, (2) you have a 19-20 crit range, (3) you get advantage easily, (4) you have elven accuracy, each of these multiplies with each other, and (5) you can swing a lot, these all scale really well. Gloom 3 is "an extra swing per action". Fighter 2 is "two actions". Champion 3 or Hex 1 is "19-20 crit range". Elven Accuracy is "make advantage awesome". Samurai 3 or Assasin 3 is "easy advantage". Paladin 2 or Warlock or BM or whispers or ... "rest-based damage budget that can crit after you hit". These all multiply together. In these cases, a full class level to get a 19-20 crit range is worth taking. And an ASI (hence a feat) is a middling level ability. The real trick is getting these multipling components online faster. For a crit fisher: Action surge: x2 Extra attack: x2, Gloom (3rd attack): x1.5 (or vice versa). 19-20 crit range: x2 crits. Advantage: 1.9x crits. Trip-vantage: x1.43 crits. 2x*2x*1.5x*2x*1.9x*1.43x = 32.604x crits Strip out a component, like 19-20 crit range, and your crit count is basically halved. You'll note that even on this build, trip-vantage is not as key as 19-20 crit range. You go from 0.05 crits/round to 1.63 crits/round. This 2.6x's the ROI on per-encounter/per-day smite-likes. Now, hexblade has the problem that the combo is 1/day. The alternative is Champion. So yes, this build would probably burn a feat for 19-20 crit range, especially if it could get a casting level with that ASI instead of having to take Champion 3. Ie, Gloom 4,5 is an ASI, an extra attack, and a caster level. That could be better than Champion 3,4,5 is for this build. Normally this build needs 1 feat (elven accuracy). With 19-20 crit range as a feat it needs 2. Fighter 2/Gloom 3/Paladin 2 is the base. Now we need 2 feats and extra attack, and as many spell casting levels as we can get, or Fighter 3, one feat. Champion 3/Gloom 5/Paladin 2 with Elven Accuracy is online; it has caster level 3. It then goes sorcerer X to fuel the smites. Fighter 2/Gloom 4/Paladin 5 is 1 level later, and has caster level 4. It can go Paladin 6 for caster level 5 and saving throw aura, then sorcerer X. Champion 3/Gloom 5/Paladin 2/Sorcerer X=10 is caster level 13. Fighter 2/Gloom 4/Paladin 6/Sorcerer X=8 is caster level 13, and has cha to all saves. So this traded is 1 feat for "+cha to all saves for myself and all allies within 10'", which is a pretty solid trade. Crap, I forgot easy advantage. Samurai 3/Gloom 4/Paladin 6/Sorcerer X=7 is caster level 13, and has cha to all saves. So this traded is 1 feat for "+cha to all saves for myself and all allies within 10'", which is a pretty solid trade. It comes online at Samurai 3/Gloom 4/Paladin 5 (level 12). It probably starts as a single-classed Paladin, and needs 13 str/wis/dex/cha to multiclass (ouch). TL;DR: I can see builds that would take 19-20 crit range as a full feat. [/QUOTE]
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