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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ART!" data-source="post: 8803310" data-attributes="member: 79926">I'd like to add an observation, based on experience from both sides of this sort of conversation. I'm not even really comfortable reducing it to two "sides", but it'll do for now, I hope.I'm not attacking or accusing anyone of anything, and I haven't read the whole thread, but because of my experiences I just want to add a word of caution.Offers to dissuade others of their spiritual beliefs are fraught with pitfalls, for both parties. The would-be dissuader might just be (consciously or unconsciously) better at making arguments that seem rational, or they might just be more forceful, or less inclined to yield ground, than the "believer". Such attempts can even become gaslighting and abusive. So, even with the best intentions (and it's hard to know if one's intentions are actually best, or instead self-serving) these attempts can be harmful to the target of the dissuasion.As noted, attempts to dissaude others of their beliefs can also be very self-serving, a way for the dissuader to stroke their ego and feel smarter-than or better-than the target.I am in no way arguing that "believers" are less forceful, more gullible, more easily intimidated, etc. than non-believers. Nor am I arguing that they are less rational. If that sounds nonsensical, well, that's part of what I'm cautioning against. Myself, I was raised in a tradition that embraced religious faith and reason, and I would feel just as silly saying I hadn't experienced anything "supernatural" as I would saying I haven't experienced anything rational.</blockquote>

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