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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Branduil" data-source="post: 4397803" data-attributes="member: 11617">Ah, multiclassing, so that makes sense. It might not be best to use your character to judge these powers, though, since that makes your PC not as "optimal" in his primary role as he could be. Yup, that's how it works. It's bit difficult to figure out at first, especially since you have to calculate the quarry ability differently.I did the math for how it would work with my optimized 8th-level Elven Ranger(22 Dex, 16 Wis).Hawk’s Talon = 15.93 DPRSpikes of the Manticore = 20.63 DPRSpikes of the Manticore = 16.68 DPR (target with cover or concealment)Spikes of the Manticore = 12.65 DPR (target with cover and concealment)SOTM is already better than Hawk's Talon against any enemy not both concealed and covered. And keep in mind that as the Ranger accumulates damage bonuses from enhancement and feats such as lasting frost, the gap between the two will only widen.Essentially, SOTM and HT seem to be the Encounter versions of Twin Strike and Careful Strike.</blockquote>