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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 7956071" data-attributes="member: 6801228">What? Let us assume the wizard has a 14 dex, and they are using a light crossbow (it is a simple weapon, so the only crossbow they are likely to use) That means their damage is 1d8+2. Average of about 6. Firebolt is 1d10, average of about 5. Most other cantrips are 1d8+effect, average damage about 4 with a special effect rider. So, if your wizard wants damage, a crossbow is about 1 point on average better damage, if you have a 14 dex. That is not "much higher damage" Even if you went with a Heavy Crossbow, which frankly they would not get considering no non-martial class gets it, that is still an average of 7 damage (1d10+2)And, considering most of the other cantrips make up with their lower damage with special effects, I'd say in all it is actually very comparable.Cantrips don't have worse damage than crossbowsFinesse weapons aren't worse than baseline, they just can't be used in two hands (no weapon does more than a 1d8 one-handed, and considering fencing is not a sport where you put both hands on the foil, that seems to pan out)I agree the thrown weapon rules are dumb, since you can draw a weapon as part of an attack action, so I let them throw as many as they have attacks. But, that is a houserule. Also note that "reliable" ranged attack for strength characters? 1d6, compared to the much better 1d8 and 1d10 of the longbow and heavy crossbow (all strength characters are martial, so this is an important point). Additionally their range is terrible (30 ft short, even the shortbow has 80ft)So, it gives them a chance to make a ranged attack, while not being terrible, but is still worse than someone dedicated to dexterity. And, Rogues using sneak attack on dex is pretty much their only option. I'm not sure what the rules used to be, but I believe it has been finesse weapons or saps for rogues sneak attacking since 3.5. 4e had nothing to do with it. And, while you could let them get strength sneaks, that opens up the ability for them to use polearms, reach weapons that will make them even more impossible to pin down. Also, I see no meaningful choices removed. I think it more just allows characters to be effective, without having to have long stretches of time where they are uselessly flailing around.</blockquote>

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