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Message: <blockquote data-quote="keterys" data-source="post: 5671670" data-attributes="member: 43019">By RAW, nothing happens.And here's the more contentious answer... nothing _should_ happen, as an across the board rule.Lots of things state if something happens if used on a creature out of surges, and that flexibility is a good and fine thing. Someone who is out of surges is already scraping the bottom of the barrel. If it's a rogue facing nabassu who do 3 surges per whack, I can assure you they weren't balanced to deal 3/4 of his hp per attack after the first 2 hits.As for the level hp not scaling right... it's not as bad as you think. Most characters increase their surge value by ~1.25 per level, so going up by 1 per level isn't too far off. It's less scary for a level 1, certainly, but a lot of stuff works differently right on a level 1. Compare between a level 8 and a 28 and it's close enough.No matter what, don't use healing surge value - use half bloodied if you need to. It's very easy to have a big bonus to your healing surge value (for example, a dwarf might have a tier item bonus and add their con bonus)</blockquote>