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<blockquote data-quote="Storm-Bringer" data-source="post: 4159401" data-attributes="member: 57832"><p>Yes.</p><p></p><p>Whenever the example of John McClane comes up, the underlying assumption seems to be that he is fresh out of the police academy.</p><p></p><p>What is important to remember about a class and level system is the 'level' part. The simulation is of a raw beginner progressing to great power. D&D has never been a game where characters start out as even merely competent, let alone 'cinematic'. Now, you can always start characters out at a higher level, but that is kind of a workaround. Skill based systems are where you start out with competent or better characters.</p><p></p><p>Certainly, a more cinematic character generation system could be added as an option, or an alternate in the core books. But there is still a sizable audience that likes starting out with a hardscrabble life and building that into greatness. They don't have to be mutually exclusive.</p><p></p><p>So, what it really boils down to is this change to superheroes D&D. Which is a perfectly acceptable style of play, if that is what a given group likes. The problem is that by implication, the rest of the people who like starting out as minor actors are not playing the One True Way. The further development goals of designing that style of play out of the rules is also going against the grain. In previous incarnations, D&D has always allowed for a more 'heroic' level of play, although it may not have always been particularly simple to start out there.</p><p></p><p>If, in your estimation, John McClane is a first level character, and that is how you like to play, <em>great</em>. I am all for D&D supporting that style. What is off-putting is that they are supporting that style of play by sacrificing any other.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Storm-Bringer, post: 4159401, member: 57832"] Yes. Whenever the example of John McClane comes up, the underlying assumption seems to be that he is fresh out of the police academy. What is important to remember about a class and level system is the 'level' part. The simulation is of a raw beginner progressing to great power. D&D has never been a game where characters start out as even merely competent, let alone 'cinematic'. Now, you can always start characters out at a higher level, but that is kind of a workaround. Skill based systems are where you start out with competent or better characters. Certainly, a more cinematic character generation system could be added as an option, or an alternate in the core books. But there is still a sizable audience that likes starting out with a hardscrabble life and building that into greatness. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. So, what it really boils down to is this change to superheroes D&D. Which is a perfectly acceptable style of play, if that is what a given group likes. The problem is that by implication, the rest of the people who like starting out as minor actors are not playing the One True Way. The further development goals of designing that style of play out of the rules is also going against the grain. In previous incarnations, D&D has always allowed for a more 'heroic' level of play, although it may not have always been particularly simple to start out there. If, in your estimation, John McClane is a first level character, and that is how you like to play, [i]great[/i]. I am all for D&D supporting that style. What is off-putting is that they are supporting that style of play by sacrificing any other. [/QUOTE]
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