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Message: <blockquote data-quote="D'karr" data-source="post: 4159444" data-attributes="member: 336">I haven't seen that.  The example of John McClane is used to show that most wounds incurred by the protagonist in movies "are merely flesh wounds."And what is being remedied by making first level characters more survivable is the "start at X level" situation.  There have been plenty of games that simply started at 3rd level, as an example, because that was the beginning of the "sweet spot."  The spot where survivability and playability met.Just so that you know, the boost in survivability also applies to the opposition.  Take a look at a Human Guard 1st level skirmisher and you will see that it applies to their end too.  Making the challenge fit the opposition makes the "sweet spot" better.  If your group only encounters one solitary guard you can easily and quite correctly assume that the power level of PCs is overwhelming and not what you really want.  But when you start looking at the actual rules for building encounters you will see that taking on 4-6 guards is not going to be the cake-walk you are estimating and riling up against. I'm sorry superheros are in aisle five.  You mean like mid-high level D&D?  The point is that D&D in incarnations before 3e was not necessarily super heroes but at mid to high level the characters were head and shoulders over the competition.  But at high level playability was horrid.In 3e, the characters were slightly more survivable at lower levels (more hit points) but the one hit wonders were really bad.  Oh, that orc just critted you with his falchion, bye bye rogue.  At mid to high level the PCs didn't have that problem so much but the one hit wonders still existed. And to top it off high level playability was still horrid.  And if there is one edition that can be considered the Justice League my vote is for 3e.4e attempts to level the curve so that playability is maintained at all levels.  So the curve has to be flattened.  High level play will still be super heroes but low to mid level are now balanced for survival.  They've shifted the sweet spot so that levels 1-4 still provide fun without swingy deaths from random chance.Color me red, but I prefer to have a game that plays great at all levels than one that only does so from level 4 to level 12.I don't think that John McClane is a first level character but I don't think that the first level characters we've seen are nearly as bad ass as John McClane.See if you want your characters to be bums from the git go, then all you have to do is increase the opposition.  In previous editions the players that wanted more capable characters started at a higher level.  So now all you have to do is start the opposition at a higher level to give the same feel in the opposite direction.You're right I'm all for supporting a style of game that makes it fun to actually play.  If that is off-putting I'm sorry.  I guess we'll always have 3e.</blockquote>

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