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<blockquote data-quote="Randalthor" data-source="post: 6104249" data-attributes="member: 6706950">While I agree that &quot;Death Spiral&quot; and one-shot-one-kill have taken on negative connotations, I don't agree that there is a universal drive for more &quot;real&quot; games*. There are plenty of people out there who are not only fine with the Hit Point model of gaming, they much prefer it, as well as all of those &quot;new school&quot; games which are about simple, simple, simple rules and to be more real, simple is not how it is done. (Of course, how real determines the amount of complication...) The reason I say this is that I have a hard time trying to get players for games other than D&amp;D, Pathfinder, or other more abstract combat-rule games is very, very hard. It seems as though everyone wants to play those games in which &quot;success&quot;** is easy and death of the character pretty-hard, at least in the insta-kill scenario. (If you have noticed, the trend in tricks &amp; traps is away from the &quot;failed save = death&quot; in AD&amp;D 1E, to where avoiding the trap is more reliant upon the Player's actions/intelligence/knowledge and not the characters, as is the norm now.)*Though I am both among those that do strive for more &quot;real&quot; games, and that I prefer death spirals to more abstract systems, such as Hit Points. **Refer to my earlier post and the section about &quot;success&quot; in D&amp;D.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Randalthor, post: 6104249, member: 6706950"] While I agree that "Death Spiral" and one-shot-one-kill have taken on negative connotations, I don't agree that there is a universal drive for more "real" games*. There are plenty of people out there who are not only fine with the Hit Point model of gaming, they much prefer it, as well as all of those "new school" games which are about simple, simple, simple rules and to be more real, simple is not how it is done. (Of course, how real determines the amount of complication...) The reason I say this is that I have a hard time trying to get players for games other than D&D, Pathfinder, or other more abstract combat-rule games is very, very hard. It seems as though everyone wants to play those games in which "success"** is easy and death of the character pretty-hard, at least in the insta-kill scenario. (If you have noticed, the trend in tricks & traps is away from the "failed save = death" in AD&D 1E, to where avoiding the trap is more reliant upon the Player's actions/intelligence/knowledge and not the characters, as is the norm now.) *Though I am both among those that do strive for more "real" games, and that I prefer death spirals to more abstract systems, such as Hit Points. **Refer to my earlier post and the section about "success" in D&D. [/QUOTE]

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