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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 1756020" data-attributes="member: 5777">So lets see. Fighter level 6 (as the wyvern is level 6 this doesnt seem incredibly unlikely).Wyvern initiative +1, chance of beating the whole party? very slim.Wyvern attack +7, chance to hit party tank? probably around 50/50.Wyvern opposed grapple check +15, probably less than 65% chance of succeeding.Now the whole party gets to go. Wyvern AC 17 while grappling. Flanking is incredibly easy to do, no threatened squares from the wyvern. Likely to lose a good chunk of his hp this round (fighter does whatever it is he wants to do while grappling, trying to escape or do some other combat manuevers, if he tries to pin the beast then he has a chance to do so, holding it immoble for one round).Wyvern takes -20 to grapple check (one limb busy) to full attack the cleric. Now fighter is virtually gaurenteed to be able to pin the beast, rest of party slaughters it.Sounds like the fighter, even though he wasnt as effective as he might have been, still won the day. It was actually a 'good thing' in some ways that he was grappled, as he was able to deny the creature attacks, pull its ac down for the rest of the party, and if it had bothered to attack him then cut its offensive power to nil.So even this fighter, who was weak (assumed str 14), ill equiped (used no equipment during the grapple), and had no relevant feats (none were used at all), still was able to make a valueable contribution to the fight while in the grips of being grappled. All of that was even after the incredibly unlikely setup.This example shows perfectly just how weak grappling tends to be.I have seen it used in several games, most of the time the monster actually gets 'easier' to fight once it is busy grappling.</blockquote>

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