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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 1623667" data-attributes="member: 141">Ur-Priest can be entered after 5 levels.  Cleric 4/Rogue 1 will do it, as will Wizard 1/Ranger 1/Rogue 3, etc..  It wouldn't be the end of the world if it took a 6th level Occultist to do it, but 9th level is too late.  And that's what a poor Fort Save would entail... and a wizard could do it by then (taking bluff as CC).And, unfortunately, feats don't increase your base fort save, and so don't help meet the Ur-Priest's pre-requisites.I'll think about it- but it seems to me that the class is a little weak at the first few levels (compared to the rogue).  After 4th level it looks like a rogue/wizard multiclass- and multiclassing with spellcasters is weaker than going with a single class. That's ok, since you have to count the ability to qualify for prestige classes to be a strength, but I estimate that it is only when it is in the teens that it starts to hold its own.But at level 10+ you have to compare the occultist to a wizard.  Being 3 levels behind a wizard is a lot.  I really doubt if the skill points and the extra hit points make up for it.  The occultist is a wizard who lacks bonus feats and a whole school of magic, and who has been forced to multiclass with 3 levels of rogue.  It takes a fair number of special perks to make that up.For instance, look at a rogue 3/wizard 5/arcane trickster 10 and compare it to an 18th level occultist.  Similar spellcasting, but the wizard has 2 more feats (1st and 5th level), and the occultist has more hit points.  But improved toughness (+1 hp/level) is a feat, so that is one- the occultist has a better familiar, but how much is an extra banned school worth?  The AT has saves of  +5 +11 +12 (total 28) while the occultist has saves of +11 +11 +11 (total 33).  So that's +5 more than the arcane trickster.  That's about the equivalent of two feats or so?  (one +1 to all saves, one +2 to one save).  Special abilities- hmmm.  Don't really know how to compare them.  The arcane trickster has +7d6 sneak attack damage, and can declare an impromptu sneak attack 2/day, and ranged legerdemain 3/day.  How does that compare with +3d6, improved evasion, (improved) uncanny dodge and spell resistance?Skill points- before int bonuses, the AT will get 6x8 + 5x2 + 10x4 = 98 skill points.  The occultist will have 21x4 = 84.  Even if the decipher script pre-requisite was a waste for the AT, the AT is still ahead by a little.I don't know, but I have trouble seeing how the occultist is really stronger than an arcane trickster.  I could tone down some of the abilities- reduce spell resistance to level+5, replace improved evasion with immunity to disease, (the 19th level ability would be immunity to poison), but I don't think that capping the spell level at 6th would be appropriate.</blockquote>

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