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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Thanee" data-source="post: 1529361" data-attributes="member: 478">I actually havn't seen anything yet to devalidate what I have written.Instead people come up with stuff like this:You probably refer to the rule, that the levels stack. Ok, so I should quit bringing up the rule for applying multiple metamagic feats in a discussion about applying multiple metamagic feats... sounds like a plan! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />And here's your explanation:And the change of the spell slot, that Heighten Spell applies?Where is that gone to suddenly?Where does it say, that Heighten Spell is the only metamagic feat in existance, which has not to apply the change in spell level here?It doesn't change the spell slot?So why do you have to use a 4th level spell slot when you use Heighten Spell to raise the spell level to 4th?It doesn't raise the spell level?Well, but it quite clearly says it does.Heighten Spell does not match the effective level with the spell slot level!Heighten Spell increases the spell slot level and the effective level is raised by the same amount!A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal.Unlike other metamagic feats, Heighten Spell actually increases the effective level of the spell it modifies.The increase in effect is a secondary benefit of Heighten Spell, a direct result of the increase in spell level.BTW, if it would work your way, then the same would be true for all metamagic feats.For example: Empower Spell states, that an empowered spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell's actual level. Maximize Spell states, that a maximized spell uses up a spell slot three level higher than the spell's actual level. So applying both you use up a spell slot that is both two levels higher and three levels higher, which a spell slot that is three levels higher than the actual spell's level nicely conforms to. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />A heightened spell has a higher spell level than normal.That's nothing else... it uses up a spell slot X levels higher than the spell's actual level, but since it also changes the effective level, it actually becomes a higher level spell for all purposes. That still doesn't free it from the rule of cumulative level stacking.ByeThanee</blockquote>

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