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Message: <blockquote data-quote="RealAlHazred" data-source="post: 6722567" data-attributes="member: 25818">Originally posted by iserith:Nice write-up. I helped someone write up a heist skill challenge a few months back that is very similar to what you got here. Here's a link to it(x) in case anyone is interested.Originally posted by bawylie: Actually that's interesting to see as a skill challenge. And illustrates why skill challenges were a difficulty for me. They were almost too abstract , too unconnected. I could've used a much more thorough treatise on them in 2008. Frankly there's a LOT of overlap. The approach was just to use formalized mechanics first & snap theme to fit. It didn't click until much later. And even today, I gotta go with theme & experience first and then find the rules & structure that work for the experience I want. Originally posted by GilbertMDH:Nice. I will have to refer back to this when I want to do a heist <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Originally posted by Devilbass:Very cool. It's one thing to run a heist type of adventure, but it's another to do it in a style like this. I think the different approach you outlined here would make for a really memorable session. Honestly, i would probably try to manipulate things so there was a large encounter with the One Bad Dude at the end. It would be a fun way to end off an otherwise low, or no-comabt session. DBOriginally posted by bawylie: Its only low/no combat if the players' plans work. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Originally posted by Devilbass: That's true. In that type of game, I generally reward creativity, so I would expect it to work. But, then again, I've had players who don't bother with trying anyhting creative, and opt for all out assault pretty much every chance they get.Originally posted by iserith:It's important to get everyone on the same page with regard to the genre expectation. D&D isn't, by default, a heist or caper game as one might expect from "Ocean's Eleven" or the like. So if the scenario is being prepared for them rather than being based upon their stated goal of pulling off a heist, some page-setting is required.Originally posted by bawylie: Well, I get that. And honestly, rescue missions and that kinda stuff are basically heists, too. You can set parameters as part of your obstacles. For example, the enticement itself can be fragile, deteriorating, or in peril. Maybe it will be destroyed by its keeper (who would rather not let anyone have it). Something like crucial evidence or experimental something or other. Likewise, you can expand the play area to a battlefield and treat the heist as a limited strike engagement with the enticement being a tactical objective. Like assassinating a military or political figure. The "Heist" bit is just structure - it's big enough to accommodate several scenarios and approaches. It just takes a smidgeon of work to line up the themes with the structures. Most of that work happens on the #. Originally posted by Azzy1974:Another great thread, Brad! Seriously, you need to collect thinse into a blog so I have a one-stop shopping district for all your insane (and insanely good) threads/articles. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Originally posted by bawylie: See, though, the day you start a blog is the day you realize nobody reads your rambling crap! Conversations seem better. Originally posted by bawylie: This. A lot of my improv-work is successful because I learn the foundations of how to create specific experiences. When it seems like my players are gonna DO a heist or if the game lends itself naturally to that, then it's time to give this stuff some thought. This week, for example, the players are going to a seaside city looking for the final piece to a puzzle. That's all they know. They want that piece. I could write basically any adventure from fetch-quest to heist to dungeon crawl to etc. in order to put that puzzle piece within reach. Now, seeing as my job is to identify goals (puzzle piece) and place obstacles, I decided to write this one up as a heist. This lead me to think Ya'll might be interested in how that's crafted. And with this framework and about half an hour to an hour of prep work, I have enough room for plenty of stuff to happen. When you understand & master the foundational, common experiences of a plot (setting, premise, whatever) you're free to use that as a springboard. Like once you master 5 minute dungeon craft, you'll never fear a side trek ever again. Originally posted by Azzy1974: True! <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /> Can I convince you to put the links to your various posts in your sig (even if hidden with a spoiler tag), at least? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />Originally posted by bawylie: Ill see what I can do. Fair warning. I can't code anything at all. Originally posted by Azzy1974: Cool, thank you. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Y'know, I only bug you because you (anr frickin' metal hair) are awesome. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Originally posted by bawylie:Ok, so one of the things you MUST do as a DM, is frame this challenge. The Questgiver should probably actually use the word "Heist" and you should reinforce it by asking "So what's the plan?" "How will you get past the NN?" keep prompting and framing. Why? Because sometimes a little guidance is good. Especially if they seem lost or can't come up with big-picture ideas or objectives. Asking and asking again, "Once you're past the NN, you'll have to ZZ. How will you do that?"Originally posted by pukunui:Brad, WotC seriously needs to hire you to write DM advice sections of the 5e DMG. [ATTACH]70915[/ATTACH]</blockquote>

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