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<blockquote data-quote="RangerWickett" data-source="post: 4504302" data-attributes="member: 63"><p>I agree in theory, but to play Devil's advocate:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Will this apply just to the world, or to the PCs too? Because psychological studies point out that people playing games generally get frustrated if the failure ratio is greater than 30% for any given attempt. I think whatever you do in this regard, you need to make sure you don't make spells randomly fail or anything like that.</p><p></p><p>Give magic a cost. Tempt with just a bit of power if you commit evil acts. Definitely have some method of creating your own spells -- not just choosing from a 'powers list' -- so that the players can be caught off guard by their foe's magic, but have the chance to gain it for themselves.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Brother, I feel the same way, but my players sure as hell like magic items. They were like kids on a Toys R Us shopping spree when the Magic Item Compendium came out. For some gamers, an immersive, compelling narrative can work, but most just want a treadmill with carrots every quarter mile.</p><p></p><p>Now, if you're trying to market the game to a mass audience, I completely understand WotC's approach. But if you're going for something more for your own group, sure, nix the huge swaths of magic items.</p><p></p><p>Of course, 4e does do a fair job of making magic items just be tricks to use, rather than reliable bonuses. I mean, hell, the ring of invisibility is, what, one round a day? High level 4e characters are like Batman with his utility belt; they use whatever they need for a momentary benefit.</p><p></p><p>I would like to get rid of +x weapons and armor, though. Especially in a game where the math is as precise as 4e, I cannot see any reason other than "sacred cow" to have kept magic item pluses.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Also known as "No, your first level rogue can't stab a guy and shove him 25 ft." This issue is one where I think 4e often suffers; they put in cool powers that have fun effects mechanically, but just don't fit a 'realist' fantasy.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RangerWickett, post: 4504302, member: 63"] I agree in theory, but to play Devil's advocate: Will this apply just to the world, or to the PCs too? Because psychological studies point out that people playing games generally get frustrated if the failure ratio is greater than 30% for any given attempt. I think whatever you do in this regard, you need to make sure you don't make spells randomly fail or anything like that. Give magic a cost. Tempt with just a bit of power if you commit evil acts. Definitely have some method of creating your own spells -- not just choosing from a 'powers list' -- so that the players can be caught off guard by their foe's magic, but have the chance to gain it for themselves. Brother, I feel the same way, but my players sure as hell like magic items. They were like kids on a Toys R Us shopping spree when the Magic Item Compendium came out. For some gamers, an immersive, compelling narrative can work, but most just want a treadmill with carrots every quarter mile. Now, if you're trying to market the game to a mass audience, I completely understand WotC's approach. But if you're going for something more for your own group, sure, nix the huge swaths of magic items. Of course, 4e does do a fair job of making magic items just be tricks to use, rather than reliable bonuses. I mean, hell, the ring of invisibility is, what, one round a day? High level 4e characters are like Batman with his utility belt; they use whatever they need for a momentary benefit. I would like to get rid of +x weapons and armor, though. Especially in a game where the math is as precise as 4e, I cannot see any reason other than "sacred cow" to have kept magic item pluses. Also known as "No, your first level rogue can't stab a guy and shove him 25 ft." This issue is one where I think 4e often suffers; they put in cool powers that have fun effects mechanically, but just don't fit a 'realist' fantasy. [/QUOTE]
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