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Hello, I am lawyer with a PSA: almost everyone is wrong about the OGL and SRD. Clearing up confusion.
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<blockquote data-quote="Steel_Wind" data-source="post: 8881808" data-attributes="member: 20741"><p>On a practical basis, if this goes to court - there are going to be arguments tendered about the ambiguity of the 1 and 1.0a OGL. WotC will say it means "<strong><span style="color: rgb(251, 160, 38)">A</span></strong>" and it isn't ambiguous, and the other party(ies) will say it plainly is ambiguous, it means "<strong><span style="color: rgb(251, 160, 38)">B</span></strong>" and will offer a MASSIVE weight of evidence that points to how the parties were lead to rely upon a contractual meaning by WotC itself over a course of DECADES including in print, on its website for the whole world to see and rely upon - and from the mouths of the corporate officers who directed its preparation and spoke to the litigants about what it meant. THAT will be tendered as evidence of the ambiguity.</p><p></p><p>And they will also offer evidence on how this financially benefitted WotC for many decades, too, in the context of explaining why "<strong><span style="color: rgb(251, 160, 38)">B</span></strong>" is a commercially reasonable interpretation.</p><p></p><p>And they will also offer evidence about the meaning in use of 1.0a, and how relying upon the use of others for derivative work operated in the industry in terms of the carve out for protected content. And that evidence will come from Clark Peterson, formerly of Necromancer Games (and now a judge in the State of Illinois).</p><p></p><p>And Ryan Dancey will give his evidence and others in the industry will as well. All of this is <em>all but certain</em> to happen, because Lisa Stevens will ask them to do it.</p><p></p><p><em>Oh but you only go to parol evidence if it is ambiguous, so you might not get there, right?</em></p><p></p><p>Wrong. <strong>DEAD wrong</strong>. That's not the way a trial works (and I am quite certain about that).</p><p></p><p>Let's not kid ourselves here. The judge (assuming it is a judge who deals with it and not a jury; America can be odd about this stuff) will hear a MASSIVE amount of evidence, principally from WotC's own mouth and its former corporate officers who will give evidence about what WotC said to others about that language and what it meant and was intended to mean -- and how they often and repeatedly persuaded people to rely upon that meaning in terms of its interpretation in use.</p><p></p><p>The judge will hear all of this <em><strong><span style="color: rgb(251, 160, 38)">before the court makes up its mind on the ambiguity issue</span></strong></em>. Supposedly, the judge who has magical powers to compartmentalize evidence, will not rely upon that evidence until he or she holds it is ambiguous.</p><p></p><p>In my experience, that is utter nonsense they teach you in law school. That's not how a trial or a motion <em>actually</em> works. The judge will hear that evidence and it will lead to an emotional reaction which will engender a plain feeling of injustice.... or it won't. If it's a suitably significant emotional reaction of injustice? It will be held to be ambiguous. If it isn't, then it won't be.</p><p></p><p>We can argue all day -- indeed, every day for a decade, and we will never come up with an adequate intellectual definition of justice, be it political or legal that we can unanimously agree upon. But injustice? That's an emotional reaction to a given set of facts. That is what injustice is. And nine times out of ten, it is <em>injustice</em> which motivates a judge. They don't teach you that in law school -- but they teach that in the courtroom: every hour of every day of every week of every year. That's how human beings work in the real world.</p><p></p><p>Having heard that evidence, despite their magical powers to compartmentalize, the court will not actually compartmentalize it (and so ignore it) when the judge hears that this evidence is literally so longstanding it went on for <em>decades. </em>To change the playing field now, especially after it has been reasonably and demonstrably relied upon not by a few, but by <em>an entire industry</em>, is unlikely AF to happen, imo.</p><p></p><p>And so it will be held to be ambiguous, that evidence (which the judge has already admitted and supposedly compartmentalized) will be relied upon and it's then it's all over but the crying.</p><p></p><p>There is no way I would tell WotC, were it my client, that a contrary result would be likely if the matter went to a hearing on the merits. Possible? Sure, but <em>not likely</em>. And I would write them a letter well before any hearing explaining to them my view of the likely outcome - to cover my own ass. And so will any other careful litigator. Maybe WotC listens... and maybe they don't. Either way, I'm covered.</p><p></p><p>Let's not forget, this is not some "technicality". This is decades of reasonable commercial reliance. That evidence isn't MAYBE getting in -- it is <em>all but certain</em> to go in. And without a very good reason to decide it to the contrary? <em>That will likely be that. </em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Steel_Wind, post: 8881808, member: 20741"] On a practical basis, if this goes to court - there are going to be arguments tendered about the ambiguity of the 1 and 1.0a OGL. WotC will say it means "[B][COLOR=rgb(251, 160, 38)]A[/COLOR][/B]" and it isn't ambiguous, and the other party(ies) will say it plainly is ambiguous, it means "[B][COLOR=rgb(251, 160, 38)]B[/COLOR][/B]" and will offer a MASSIVE weight of evidence that points to how the parties were lead to rely upon a contractual meaning by WotC itself over a course of DECADES including in print, on its website for the whole world to see and rely upon - and from the mouths of the corporate officers who directed its preparation and spoke to the litigants about what it meant. THAT will be tendered as evidence of the ambiguity. And they will also offer evidence on how this financially benefitted WotC for many decades, too, in the context of explaining why "[B][COLOR=rgb(251, 160, 38)]B[/COLOR][/B]" is a commercially reasonable interpretation. And they will also offer evidence about the meaning in use of 1.0a, and how relying upon the use of others for derivative work operated in the industry in terms of the carve out for protected content. And that evidence will come from Clark Peterson, formerly of Necromancer Games (and now a judge in the State of Illinois). And Ryan Dancey will give his evidence and others in the industry will as well. All of this is [I]all but certain[/I] to happen, because Lisa Stevens will ask them to do it. [I]Oh but you only go to parol evidence if it is ambiguous, so you might not get there, right?[/I] Wrong. [B]DEAD wrong[/B]. That's not the way a trial works (and I am quite certain about that). Let's not kid ourselves here. The judge (assuming it is a judge who deals with it and not a jury; America can be odd about this stuff) will hear a MASSIVE amount of evidence, principally from WotC's own mouth and its former corporate officers who will give evidence about what WotC said to others about that language and what it meant and was intended to mean -- and how they often and repeatedly persuaded people to rely upon that meaning in terms of its interpretation in use. The judge will hear all of this [I][B][COLOR=rgb(251, 160, 38)]before the court makes up its mind on the ambiguity issue[/COLOR][/B][/I]. Supposedly, the judge who has magical powers to compartmentalize evidence, will not rely upon that evidence until he or she holds it is ambiguous. In my experience, that is utter nonsense they teach you in law school. That's not how a trial or a motion [I]actually[/I] works. The judge will hear that evidence and it will lead to an emotional reaction which will engender a plain feeling of injustice.... or it won't. If it's a suitably significant emotional reaction of injustice? It will be held to be ambiguous. If it isn't, then it won't be. We can argue all day -- indeed, every day for a decade, and we will never come up with an adequate intellectual definition of justice, be it political or legal that we can unanimously agree upon. But injustice? That's an emotional reaction to a given set of facts. That is what injustice is. And nine times out of ten, it is [I]injustice[/I] which motivates a judge. They don't teach you that in law school -- but they teach that in the courtroom: every hour of every day of every week of every year. That's how human beings work in the real world. Having heard that evidence, despite their magical powers to compartmentalize, the court will not actually compartmentalize it (and so ignore it) when the judge hears that this evidence is literally so longstanding it went on for [I]decades. [/I]To change the playing field now, especially after it has been reasonably and demonstrably relied upon not by a few, but by [I]an entire industry[/I], is unlikely AF to happen, imo. And so it will be held to be ambiguous, that evidence (which the judge has already admitted and supposedly compartmentalized) will be relied upon and it's then it's all over but the crying. There is no way I would tell WotC, were it my client, that a contrary result would be likely if the matter went to a hearing on the merits. Possible? Sure, but [I]not likely[/I]. And I would write them a letter well before any hearing explaining to them my view of the likely outcome - to cover my own ass. And so will any other careful litigator. Maybe WotC listens... and maybe they don't. Either way, I'm covered. Let's not forget, this is not some "technicality". This is decades of reasonable commercial reliance. That evidence isn't MAYBE getting in -- it is [I]all but certain[/I] to go in. And without a very good reason to decide it to the contrary? [I]That will likely be that. [/I] [/QUOTE]
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Hello, I am lawyer with a PSA: almost everyone is wrong about the OGL and SRD. Clearing up confusion.
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