Help a lapsed DM with newfangled online gaming

[hewligan]

Hello everyone,

I am an old-timer DnD player, and when I say old-timer I mean that I have not played for about 12 years. Since that time I have gone to university (several times), discovered girls, got married, had a kid, worked my socks off, etc. I have retained a strong interest in good old-fashioned roleplaying games, reading ENWorld.com quite often, and even buying and reading the DnD 3.5 core rulebooks just to see what had changed.

Anyway, I am thinking that maybe, just maybe, I would like to get back into it, perhaps by DMing a weekend game, couple of hours, probably after my kid's bedtime (so say 8pm till 10pm GMT, Sunday night). I think the most realistic approach is to organise a game over the internet, with players from wherever, using something like iChat, skype, or OpenRPG (which I read about, tried to install, failed to get working, and then gave up in a fit of anger), but I would like to ask a few questions of people who have tried this type of thing before:

1) What is the best client for this type of thing (I use a Mac)?

2) Could iChat work? I have an iSight camera, and I believe it can do 4 way chat (I would probably want 3 players at first - small enough to be manageable).

3) Is voice or typing most effective for online play?

4) How do you handle dice rolling - especially from the players? In my previous games, I used to roll dice for the monsters in secret as I wanted to retain the ability to ignore the dice if they interfere with the story telling (so if a single blow would kill a character just through a combination of abominable dice rolls, and not through stupidity on the part of that character, I would normally fudge it, put them into unconsciousness, make them lose something of value, but give them a chance to escape imprisonment). I do kill characters, but very rarely (only when their stupidity is sufficient to require a lesson to be taught).

5) Do these type of games (online) actually work? Meaning, can you get a good flow of storytelling, response, tension, colour, etc., or does the absence of actual interaction dampen the play? Do people regularly turn up? Do the games run considerably slower than normal games?

Basically, I am looking for any sort of feedback from people who have dabbled in this area before. I am trying to decide whether to spend the effort getting familiar with the rules again, or whether really all I should be doing to satisfy my fantasy itch is write a few stories instead. At heart I am a story-teller, and I loved DMing, and while for a few years I wrote a lot of fiction (all on my hard disk, all unfinished) to compensate for my lost hobby of old, I have started to really want to go back to DMing to see if I still get as much out of it as I used to. Oh, and I am only 31 - when I read the above post it made me sound like I was 60 or something.

Thanks!

 

[awayfarer]

Both my gaming groups use Openrpg. My MERP group used to be partly tabletop, it was made of two groups that game together, one east coast and one west coast. When people on both sides started moving away, we went onto Open and I think the flow of the game improved since we were all looking at the same board.

3) Is voice or typing most effective for online play?

I've found that I prefer typing. There are two benefits to it.
1: More incentive to stay in character. You don't feel like an ass and don't have to speak in a funny voice.
2: In a program like Open, you can go back and look over what was said without having to stop the game and ask things to be repeated.

How do you handle dice rolling - especially from the players? In my previous games, I used to roll dice for the monsters in secret as I wanted to retain the ability to ignore the dice

Open has a plugin that you can use to hide dice rolls.

5) Do these type of games (online) actually work? Meaning, can you get a good flow of storytelling, response, tension, colour, etc., or does the absence of actual interaction dampen the play? Do people regularly turn up? Do the games run considerably slower than normal games?

I think my WLD group has a better grasp of those things than my MERP group. It seems to run at least as well if not better. I noticed a marked improvement in the speed of things for my MERP group when we switched over, but part of that could just be that we were finally all on the same page.

THe DM of the WLD group (Hussar) is on here sometimes. I'm sure he could tell you more about it than I could.

 

[Saba Taru]

Hello!

Hello everyone,

I am an old-timer DnD player, and when I say old-timer I mean that I have not played for about 12 years. Since that time I have gone to university (several times), discovered girls, got married, had a kid, worked my socks off, etc. I have retained a strong interest in good old-fashioned roleplaying games, reading ENWorld.com quite often, and even buying and reading the DnD 3.5 core rulebooks just to see what had changed.

Welcome back.

Anyway, I am thinking that maybe, just maybe, I would like to get back into it, perhaps by DMing a weekend game, couple of hours, probably after my kid's bedtime (so say 8pm till 10pm GMT, Sunday night). I think the most realistic approach is to organise a game over the internet, with players from wherever, using something like iChat, skype, or OpenRPG (which I read about, tried to install, failed to get working, and then gave up in a fit of anger), but I would like to ask a few questions of people who have tried this type of thing before:

Did you read the OpenRPG install instructions from HERE? I also use a Mac (Macbook Pro to be specific) and the second install option worked like a charm for me.

I started using OpenRPG. It's an excellent (and free!) piece of software that should do everything you need. It even has its own dice roller.

1) What is the best client for this type of thing (I use a Mac)?

This I would say depends on what type of Mac you have. I have one of those new Intel-based Macs that I can dual-boot. When I switched, several of my software programs (*shakes fist at CC3 and ProFantasy*) only work on a Windows box, so I configured a relatively small portion of my HD to allow me to run my Windows programs.

With that said...

I like OpenRPG, but, quite frankly, I prefer a piece of software called Fantasy Grounds . Unfortunately, while the first one is free, the second one is not. It's all in what you want the program to do, although they both do basically the same thing.

2) Could iChat work? I have an iSight camera, and I believe it can do 4 way chat (I would probably want 3 players at first - small enough to be manageable).

I can honestly say that while I've seen that software on my comp, I've never, ever had a reason to open it up. I have no idea if that would work or not, but I don't see why it couldn't.

3) Is voice or typing most effective for online play?

One of my previous players did not have a computer that he could run voice chat software (like Ventrilo and TeamSpeak) from. I got used to making sure that I could run games using nothing but my typing skills and a whole lot of prepared materials.

I will say this, however. Until you get used to what each stranger sounds like on your speakers, there will be no end to the confusion. No one sounds right at first. It's nice once you get past that, though.

4) How do you handle dice rolling - especially from the players? In my previous games, I used to roll dice for the monsters in secret as I wanted to retain the ability to ignore the dice if they interfere with the story telling (so if a single blow would kill a character just through a combination of abominable dice rolls, and not through stupidity on the part of that character, I would normally fudge it, put them into unconsciousness, make them lose something of value, but give them a chance to escape imprisonment). I do kill characters, but very rarely (only when their stupidity is sufficient to require a lesson to be taught).

Both programs mentioned above will handle dice rolling. Fantasy Grounds will handle the "secret" rolls for you. I haven't really used OpenRPG for a while, so while I know it rolls dice, I can't remember if you can hide those from your players or not. I know, I know. That's not really helpful, but it's still early here.

5) Do these type of games (online) actually work? Meaning, can you get a good flow of storytelling, response, tension, colour, etc., or does the absence of actual interaction dampen the play? Do people regularly turn up? Do the games run considerably slower than normal games?

I've had mixed responses to this type of play style. I'm a hardcore online gamer to start with (yes, I've played all the MMORPGs out there at one point or another), so the computer environment is pretty natural to me. This is not the case for many, many people. You can also say things with "written" words much more effectively than you can in person (for setting and such purposes), reading and reading comprehension forces people to use their imaginations (which is usually not a bad thing), and the degree of anonymity that online play affords does allow a player a little more freedom to be "in character" than face-to-face games do in my experience.

It's all up to who you have on the other end of the keyboard, really, as to what kind of positive or negative experiences you have with online play. That part hasn't changed from pen and paper play.

Basically, I am looking for any sort of feedback from people who have dabbled in this area before. I am trying to decide whether to spend the effort getting familiar with the rules again, or whether really all I should be doing to satisfy my fantasy itch is write a few stories instead. At heart I am a story-teller, and I loved DMing, and while for a few years I wrote a lot of fiction (all on my hard disk, all unfinished) to compensate for my lost hobby of old, I have started to really want to go back to DMing to see if I still get as much out of it as I used to. Oh, and I am only 31 - when I read the above post it made me sound like I was 60 or something.

Thanks!

All you can do is try it out. If you find it isn't for you, as you've stated, there's always fiction. Or you can do both. As my 31 years (yes, I'm 31, too!) have taught me, learning something new is never a bad thing, and I always manage to find a use for it. Can't hurt to try it.

Saba

 

[rvalle]

Hi. I'm close to being in the same boat as you. I manged to play off and on for a while but work, kids and life put a big crimp in gaming time. I also turned to playing Online.

1. Like Saba Taru I use Fantasy Grounds. Unfortunatly they currently do not have a native Mac version. There is talk about making one some day but it won't be any time soon.

3. While there are advantages to typing, we use Voice. Either Team Speak for when we have more then 5 people on or Skype for less then 5.

4. FG handles dice rolling very well. You can either roll a virtual die or setup hot keys. Either one can be hidden or shared.

5. We've been playing for over a year now. But I started with a core group of friends that have played together before. We have one new person pulled over from a MMO that is now part of the group.

This type of gaming is not for everyone. I had several people try it and not show up again (either due to playing online, my DM's style or not liking what I was running (WLD)). I now have a core group of 4 people that show up for every game and 2 others that show up when they can.

In some ways the game does run slower I think. Fights seem to take longer but it might be because we have some first time 3.5 DnD players in our group.

One thing that works VERY well in FG is mapping. I get the WLD maps into FG and then we play the whole game off the map. Player tokens are moved around in real time to show where they are. When a trap goes off or an ambush is taking place, there is no question about where someone is. Fog of war masking is used so I unveil parts of the map as they move though the areas. Playing face-to-face and having to deal with mapping will be painfull after this.


I hope that helps some. I'm sure Hussar will be along in a while to talk about his on-line experance. He's is also running WLD online and using OpenRPG.

rv

 

[The Hound]

Welcome back to gaming I also fell away from roleplaying for over ten years, and finally came back. I haven't gotten much into the DM thing this time around, though.

May I humbly suggest checking out www.rpgtonight.com - a preview is open now, and starting sometime in January it will offer free online roleplaying with built in voicechat (or typechat if you prefer that). There is nothing to download and it's cross platform. I won't say much more about it, since its my site and I'm biased. You can set up a type chat game in the preview area if you want.

It should work fine on a Mac, and we would be interested in your feedback if you try it out.

 

[Treebore]

Yeah, I saw your post about this last night. Looked at it a bit, and started spreading the word to my chat and PbP groups. It looks awesome. I hope you guys have plenty of bandwidth, because with it looking as good as it is, and being offered for free, I think bandwidth is going to be a big issue for you.

 

[hewligan]

Dear Mr The Hound, your web based tool looks interesting. I shall experiment with it.

Also Sabu Tara - thanks for the install link for OpenRPG - looks complicated, but I am a techie, so it should all be achievable. Something to try this weekend.

The replies have been very helpful so far. It sounds like text based (typing) may be the way to go, because it means I can actually have pretty much all the prepared text ready to copy and paste, and then just have to type ad-hoc around those chunks. Then if any game I start is working, we can slowly introduce voice with the text and see if that helps.

I am at the stage of having to go away and think whether I want to dedicate the time to do this. I guess to organise a 2 hour session each week would require an additional 2 hours prep time (I am a demon-fast typer), with perhaps 1 week of free time dedicated to setting the initial game up in the first place.

Anyway, thanks for all the replies so far. You have been very helpful!

 

[Treebore]

Buy pdf adventures. Copy and paste their text, and their maps.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

If you are time limited, as it sound like you are, it may be easier to use something like Yahoogroups. Not only can you access the game from just about anywhere, even work, but you can post to the game whenever you get a free moment (like after the kid goes to bed.)

In my experience, setting up OpenRPG and such is a pain, and for me setting up the free time reliably is near impossible. With Yahoogroups, I typically post from 4-5 computers a week (I have a lot of part-time jobs) so it works well for me. If I am rally up one day, I can post like a madman, but if I am blah, no need to psotthat day.

Yahoo is a lot slower though, as it takes a lot of time to figure out even basic stuff (See my characters treasure division as an example) bu onthe other hand there is a lot more time for roleplay, as you have all the time in the world to type. And looks up stuff on the Internet between posts.

Here is a link to my msot successful game, if you want to take a look.

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Lyddas_Curse/

 

[Imagicka]

Greetings...

Running an online RPG. Well, I've tried all sorts of things. First of all, I don't know about using Skype or anything like that, because even though a much more can be conveyed in speech, such as the meaning of your intent through vocal inflection... I would personally would shy away of such things.

With online roleplaying, through the use of text tends to get the players thinking a little more about their actions while they are typing it out, and lets them be a little more verbose in their actions, and truly attempt to paint a picture with words. Which I find to be a little more emersive. So, if you can find a gaming environment with text. That I think would be ideal.

As for dice rolling. I found that a lot more roleplaying was being done by the players, and not a lot of dice rolling and combat situations. Combat tends to take a long long time, especially if your doing it Play-by-Post. There are websites that have dice-rolling features. Things that will roll the dice virtually and send an automatic email to the DM with the result. But I usually roll the dice for my players. That way they can concentrate more on the game, and less on the numbers.

As for these third-party software programmes to run an RPG. I had a look at OpenRPG, and I wasn't very impressed with it. It didn't have enough bells and whistles for me. But then, I haven't had a chance to really put it through it's paces. But then, I really haven't gotten to do it with any other programme either.

There is a website called The Tangled Web Which is dedicated to online virtual tabletop games, and use OpenRPG and something else called MapTools which looks to be a little too bare-bones for me.

There is another programme that I was interested in, Fantasy Grounds. All the tabletop goodness, with all the organization of a computer. Again, I haven't put it through it's paces, but this is definately one programme I'd like to try out.

There are some other programmes out there... Let's see, there is also Battlegrounds - BRPG, looks interesting.

But ideally, what I would like to see is something that does the virtual table-top mapping, character sheets, as well as all the GM to maintain combat. Right now, the best programme I've seen for maintaining combat with a programme has been a programme called DM Genie.

I've tried running a game through other games that allowed for such things. Such as running a game through Neverwinter Nights, or Vampire the Redemption. I've also been involved in Muds and Mushes, and even free-form roleplaying done on everything from chatrooms, MMoRPGs and over chatters like ICQ.

Probably the best environment for running a game online are the low-tech ones.

If you have a live audience...and you can run something with everyone... Great... Chatter programmes are probably your best bet. Where I can send all the players files of maps (or direct them to a website where I keep all the images/maps/files for the players while I'm running the game). There are a lot of people who also run their RPGs online over IRC. I guess that having a barebones approach

If you don't have a live audience. Well, playing by post is your best bet there. You can do PbP (play by post), (also sometimes known as PbEM (play by email)), on forum websites. Enworld has a forum for that. But there are also sites dedicated for it. I'm currently trying to get a game going on the site: RPoL.net.

Now if your going to go the live route, and prepare beforehand the adventure, ready to cut-and-paste the scenes to your players. Well, might I suggest a programme? Personally, I love the programme, and it's a clipboard extender. So, anything you cut you can see it, edit it... and do other things to it... before you paste it. The programme is called Clipmate. I use it to organize and collect almost everything that I do.

The bulk of the things I work with are URLs, but I can imagine the usefulness of the programme to pre-write all the texts you want to paste to your players. Selecting what you need at the time, and posting it. Clipmate has a lot of useful features. Such as allowing you to merge various 'clips' together. Or breaking them apart (based on a delimiter). Or you can set it up to paste item after item (called power pasting).