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<blockquote data-quote="Bacon Bits" data-source="post: 7562410" data-attributes="member: 6777737">Yes. 18/00 was +3 to hit and +6 to damage, while 17 was +1 to hit and +1 to damage. That's all I remember. Though there were an obviously improbable number of characters with percentile strength in 1e/2e because it was just too attractive.Yes, but you didn't get 2/1 attacks until level 13, so they never got above 5/2 attacks even with specialization.&nbsp; They would have +4 to hit and +8 to damage, which is absurd in 1e/2e.&nbsp; It'd be like +4 to hit +16 to damage in 5e.In 5e an 11th level 20 Str or Dex Fighter -- which any character can easily reach -- will have three attacks a round at +5 to hit and +7 damage with the Duelist style. If you do the math, +1 to hit roughly counts for +2 to damage, so +4/+8 and +5/+7 are roughly equivalent, and the 5e character has more attacks.So, a fairly maximally optimized (without magic) character in 1e/2e (a significant difficult bar to reach) has the same damage output as a trivially optimized character in 5e. To be sure, the optimization well in 5e is a lot shallower, and it's a little unfair because 1e/2e to hit tables and NPC AC are a bit different -- by level 13 it was all about the +damage, as I recall -- but it's not that different.&nbsp; Again, hit point wise, the 1e/2e optimized character is much more powerful but as far as the numbers you'll be tossing out you'll be much higher much more often in 5e.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Bacon Bits, post: 7562410, member: 6777737"] Yes. 18/00 was +3 to hit and +6 to damage, while 17 was +1 to hit and +1 to damage. That's all I remember. Though there were an obviously improbable number of characters with percentile strength in 1e/2e because it was just too attractive. Yes, but you didn't get 2/1 attacks until level 13, so they never got above 5/2 attacks even with specialization. They would have +4 to hit and +8 to damage, which is [I]absurd[/I] in 1e/2e. It'd be like +4 to hit +16 to damage in 5e. In 5e an 11th level 20 Str or Dex Fighter -- which any character can easily reach -- will have three attacks a round at +5 to hit and +7 damage with the Duelist style. If you do the math, +1 to hit roughly counts for +2 to damage, so +4/+8 and +5/+7 are roughly equivalent, and the 5e character has more attacks. So, a fairly maximally optimized (without magic) character in 1e/2e (a significant difficult bar to reach) has the same damage output as a trivially optimized character in 5e. To be sure, the optimization well in 5e is a lot shallower, and it's a little unfair because 1e/2e to hit tables and NPC AC are a bit different -- by level 13 it was all about the +damage, as I recall -- but it's not that different. Again, hit point wise, the 1e/2e optimized character is much more powerful but as far as the numbers you'll be tossing out you'll be much higher much more often in 5e. [/QUOTE]

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