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Help fix these feats (10-08: Throwback)
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<blockquote data-quote="Borlon" data-source="post: 2637371" data-attributes="member: 27589"><p>Hey, thanks for adopting the mod! I like the simplicity of your fix; that the feat increases the effect of the spell on those fail the save while simultaneously increasing the chance that they will make the save. Very elegant.</p><p></p><p>I think Sledge is right about the fact that it nerfs the feat, though. Imagine that a 10th level wizard with an 18 intelligence casts <em>fireball</em> on some opponents. The opponents have a +3 reflex save. They make their save against the unmodified <em>fireball</em> on a 14 or better, so 35% of the time.</p><p></p><p>Average d6 of damage= (0.35 * 5) + (0.65 * 10) = 8.25</p><p></p><p>The wizard reduces the save DC by 4, increasing the damage (on a failed save) to 12d6.</p><p></p><p>Average d6 of damage = (0.55 * 5) + (0.45 * 12) = 8.15</p><p></p><p>He actually does slightly less damage. But you'd think that against opponents with such poor saves he could stand to reduce the save by at least 4.</p><p></p><p>Using Jester's suggestion, the damage on a successful save would also be increased, but not by more than 4 (since that is the caster's spellcasting mod). That would result in 8.7 d6 of damage, or less than 1.6 hp damage more per monster from what the unmodified spell would do. For this you spent a feat?</p><p></p><p>I think you'd need to increase the conversion rate to 1:1. That is, reduce the DC by 1 to increase the CL by 1.</p><p></p><p>Then the RC model would be (0.55 * 5) + (0.45 * 14) = 9.05 d6 on average. About 2.8 hit points more per monster than if the feat hadn't been taken. Better, but still kinda marginal.</p><p></p><p>If you use Jester's mod, you get 10.15 dice. 6.65 more damage per monster. That seems good. But the problem with Jester's mod with the improved conversion rate is that you would always want to use the feat to its fullest. For <em>fireball</em>, each -1 in the DC reduces the effect of a 10d6 <em>fireball</em> by 0.25d6. But each +1 to the caster level adds at least 0.5 d6 damage. It's not a well-designed feat if you always use it to its fullest.</p><p></p><p>So I think that RC's fix is best, if supplemented by changing the conversion rate from -1 DC = +1 CL. But it still seems a pretty weak feat.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Borlon, post: 2637371, member: 27589"] Hey, thanks for adopting the mod! I like the simplicity of your fix; that the feat increases the effect of the spell on those fail the save while simultaneously increasing the chance that they will make the save. Very elegant. I think Sledge is right about the fact that it nerfs the feat, though. Imagine that a 10th level wizard with an 18 intelligence casts [i]fireball[/i] on some opponents. The opponents have a +3 reflex save. They make their save against the unmodified [i]fireball[/i] on a 14 or better, so 35% of the time. Average d6 of damage= (0.35 * 5) + (0.65 * 10) = 8.25 The wizard reduces the save DC by 4, increasing the damage (on a failed save) to 12d6. Average d6 of damage = (0.55 * 5) + (0.45 * 12) = 8.15 He actually does slightly less damage. But you'd think that against opponents with such poor saves he could stand to reduce the save by at least 4. Using Jester's suggestion, the damage on a successful save would also be increased, but not by more than 4 (since that is the caster's spellcasting mod). That would result in 8.7 d6 of damage, or less than 1.6 hp damage more per monster from what the unmodified spell would do. For this you spent a feat? I think you'd need to increase the conversion rate to 1:1. That is, reduce the DC by 1 to increase the CL by 1. Then the RC model would be (0.55 * 5) + (0.45 * 14) = 9.05 d6 on average. About 2.8 hit points more per monster than if the feat hadn't been taken. Better, but still kinda marginal. If you use Jester's mod, you get 10.15 dice. 6.65 more damage per monster. That seems good. But the problem with Jester's mod with the improved conversion rate is that you would always want to use the feat to its fullest. For [i]fireball[/i], each -1 in the DC reduces the effect of a 10d6 [i]fireball[/i] by 0.25d6. But each +1 to the caster level adds at least 0.5 d6 damage. It's not a well-designed feat if you always use it to its fullest. So I think that RC's fix is best, if supplemented by changing the conversion rate from -1 DC = +1 CL. But it still seems a pretty weak feat. [/QUOTE]
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