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Help for someone clueless about D&D before AD&D 1st Edition?
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<blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 7387751" data-attributes="member: 4348"><p>I'm not absolutely positive what you are asking, but will try to answer as I can. This is off the top of my head from a while ago...soooo...</p><p></p><p>Originally, the default rules for combat and leveling were based on the rules from a miniature wargame called Chainmail. I never played chainmail, so the original default system of D&D is not one I greatly understand. All things were done with a D6 for the most part, except if you used the secondary combat system when rolling in combat (which eventually became the default system later). Hence, Hitpoints were based off a D6, as well as weapon damage. I NEVER DM'd the original D&D from the 3 booklets, any D&D I played with those was from someone else. In fact, during my first games, I didn't even know the rules really, just that I was a some sort of sword wielding warrior.</p><p></p><p>The secondary combat system was very similar to what we have now and what you see in AD&D. In fact, Greyhawk changed the game. The entire dynamic of the game changed. It was built more to accommodate the secondary combat system. Now each class had hitpoints based on different variables, weapons had different variable damages, and various other things that any AD&D player would recognize. In fact, I'd say the original 3 booklets absolutely NEED Greyhawk to be played, and Greyhawk basically defined the game for almost EVERYONE after it came out.</p><p></p><p>This is why AD&D is more based on the concepts of Greyhawk, than the original 3 booklets portions that were based off chainmail. Via supplements and many articles, OD&D was a LOT like AD&D. </p><p></p><p>In fact, I'd say by the time AD&D was being formed, all it was, was a collection of all the various OD&D items finally put together in one location (or three books) and streamlined a bit (so some items were changed, but the basic idea and formats of things stayed the same overall from OD&D Greyhawk (to differentiate it from the 3 Original books prior from all that came after). </p><p></p><p>If you played AD&D it was basically the conglomeration of everything OD&D up to that point but reorganized and tweaked. I think all the monsters made an appearance in AD&D, but the monsters in AD&D are more from the Greyhawk line of thought rather than the OD&D/Chainmail line of thought.</p><p></p><p>Holmes was something that kind of was a bridge between the two. It isn't really AD&D, but it isn't really wholly OD&D either. It's its own thing. Compatible with both, but neither one or the other. Many leaped head first into the game with it, others stayed with OD&D and later full on to AD&D. </p><p></p><p>Those who actually played OD&D were much more rare than those who played AD&D or Holmes. In fact, almost all those that I personally knew of the older players (those who weren't kids or teens at the time that I knew myself) are dead now mostly, or the ones I knew. The younger players are still around, but even then some of them are dead or gone also. To me, sometimes it seems there are more who claim to have been around and playing OD&D than there actually were playing OD&D.</p><p></p><p>Hence, it's not unusual for most of those who are the grognards of yesteryear to have started with either AD&D, or B/X or BECMI. Even I, I didn't even own the rules at the time OD&D originally was created and came out (the 3 books) and so my only experiences were with friends originally, and so even my experiences are not the genuine experiences of those who were the original players. </p><p></p><p>In addition, I suppose for years I was more of a wargamer than an RPG player. I didn't get big into RPGs until much later than I did with wargames. Which is something else I could bring up.</p><p></p><p>I think Wargaming and the Wargaming crowd had a HUGE impact on the early days of OD&D. You could view the historical Wargamers as the original Nerds of the 60s and 70s. Medieval or even worse, Fantasy Wargaming was a subset of that. It was from this crowd that the original D&D players came from (and yes, I suppose in some ways that would mean I would be a nerd to the degree any wargamer was a nerd back then). Of course, I think the term would relate more to a geek or something like that today, with the nerds being more of the guys that were big into math and physics. Of course, there was a HUGE crossflow between the guys who loved history and wargaming and those who loved math and physics (and other hard sciences).</p><p></p><p>OD&D itself was big for the hobby overall, but comparatively to what it became with AD&D, it was miniscule when it came out, or that is my impression. It EXPLODED later in popularity. </p><p></p><p>That's my impressions at least. I cannot speak for the hobby as a whole. Anything I have said or could say would be anecdotal from a more local view rather than any ability to view the hobby overall at that time...and thus is completely a personal opinion/view. IT may be that it was VERY different overall than what I viewed it.</p><p></p><p>However, that's the best I probably could say today...I'm not sure if that answer's your questions or not though.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GreyLord, post: 7387751, member: 4348"] I'm not absolutely positive what you are asking, but will try to answer as I can. This is off the top of my head from a while ago...soooo... Originally, the default rules for combat and leveling were based on the rules from a miniature wargame called Chainmail. I never played chainmail, so the original default system of D&D is not one I greatly understand. All things were done with a D6 for the most part, except if you used the secondary combat system when rolling in combat (which eventually became the default system later). Hence, Hitpoints were based off a D6, as well as weapon damage. I NEVER DM'd the original D&D from the 3 booklets, any D&D I played with those was from someone else. In fact, during my first games, I didn't even know the rules really, just that I was a some sort of sword wielding warrior. The secondary combat system was very similar to what we have now and what you see in AD&D. In fact, Greyhawk changed the game. The entire dynamic of the game changed. It was built more to accommodate the secondary combat system. Now each class had hitpoints based on different variables, weapons had different variable damages, and various other things that any AD&D player would recognize. In fact, I'd say the original 3 booklets absolutely NEED Greyhawk to be played, and Greyhawk basically defined the game for almost EVERYONE after it came out. This is why AD&D is more based on the concepts of Greyhawk, than the original 3 booklets portions that were based off chainmail. Via supplements and many articles, OD&D was a LOT like AD&D. In fact, I'd say by the time AD&D was being formed, all it was, was a collection of all the various OD&D items finally put together in one location (or three books) and streamlined a bit (so some items were changed, but the basic idea and formats of things stayed the same overall from OD&D Greyhawk (to differentiate it from the 3 Original books prior from all that came after). If you played AD&D it was basically the conglomeration of everything OD&D up to that point but reorganized and tweaked. I think all the monsters made an appearance in AD&D, but the monsters in AD&D are more from the Greyhawk line of thought rather than the OD&D/Chainmail line of thought. Holmes was something that kind of was a bridge between the two. It isn't really AD&D, but it isn't really wholly OD&D either. It's its own thing. Compatible with both, but neither one or the other. Many leaped head first into the game with it, others stayed with OD&D and later full on to AD&D. Those who actually played OD&D were much more rare than those who played AD&D or Holmes. In fact, almost all those that I personally knew of the older players (those who weren't kids or teens at the time that I knew myself) are dead now mostly, or the ones I knew. The younger players are still around, but even then some of them are dead or gone also. To me, sometimes it seems there are more who claim to have been around and playing OD&D than there actually were playing OD&D. Hence, it's not unusual for most of those who are the grognards of yesteryear to have started with either AD&D, or B/X or BECMI. Even I, I didn't even own the rules at the time OD&D originally was created and came out (the 3 books) and so my only experiences were with friends originally, and so even my experiences are not the genuine experiences of those who were the original players. In addition, I suppose for years I was more of a wargamer than an RPG player. I didn't get big into RPGs until much later than I did with wargames. Which is something else I could bring up. I think Wargaming and the Wargaming crowd had a HUGE impact on the early days of OD&D. You could view the historical Wargamers as the original Nerds of the 60s and 70s. Medieval or even worse, Fantasy Wargaming was a subset of that. It was from this crowd that the original D&D players came from (and yes, I suppose in some ways that would mean I would be a nerd to the degree any wargamer was a nerd back then). Of course, I think the term would relate more to a geek or something like that today, with the nerds being more of the guys that were big into math and physics. Of course, there was a HUGE crossflow between the guys who loved history and wargaming and those who loved math and physics (and other hard sciences). OD&D itself was big for the hobby overall, but comparatively to what it became with AD&D, it was miniscule when it came out, or that is my impression. It EXPLODED later in popularity. That's my impressions at least. I cannot speak for the hobby as a whole. Anything I have said or could say would be anecdotal from a more local view rather than any ability to view the hobby overall at that time...and thus is completely a personal opinion/view. IT may be that it was VERY different overall than what I viewed it. However, that's the best I probably could say today...I'm not sure if that answer's your questions or not though. [/QUOTE]
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