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Help for someone clueless about D&D before AD&D 1st Edition?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7390447" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>None of these is a pre-AD&D game. Like AD&D, they are attempts to present a game that is derived from, but in some respects cleaner than and better presented than, original D&D + supplements.</p><p></p><p>B/X refers to Moldvay Basic (c 1981, a red booklet written by Tom Moldvay) and Cook/Marsh Expert (a blue booklet written by David Cook and Steve Marsh). Both booklets shipped as boxed sets that also contained a module (in my case, Keep on the Borderlands in Basic and The Isle of Dread in Expert) and dice.</p><p></p><p>Basic had rules for levels 1-3, Expert for leves 4-14. Dwarf, Elf and Halfling are classes (with maximum levels of 12, 10 and 8 respectively); humans can be fighters, thieves (who can use any weapon), clerics, or magic-users. Both have monster sections, and magic item sections. The magic items in Basic are lower-powered than in Expert. Maximum "+" for swords and armour is +3 in Expert. Maximum spell level is 6 for MUs (and so the best attack spells are Disintegrate and Death Spell) and 5 for clerics (so Raise Dead is the most dramatic effect possible; and there is no Flame Strike spell).</p><p></p><p>The basic feel of B/X is like AD&D but without the subclasses (no druids, paladins, rangers, illusionists, assassins, monks, bards), with fewer spells in the spell lists, and with significantly cleaner rules (and Moldvay Basic is stronger in this last respect than is Expert). There are a number of monsters in B/X that are not found in the MM or MMII for AD&D eg living statues, various giant insects, giant ferrets, a variety of golems, etc.</p><p></p><p>The Expert book promised a Companion set to follow, which would include rules for levels 15 to 36. It never happened.</p><p></p><p>B/X has no cosmology by default, but the Expert set introduces The Grand Duchy of Karameikos as a sample campaign area, and there is a map in The Isle of Dread that expands on that, adding more lands around the Grand Duchy. This was eventually labelled the "Known World", and later Mystara. Some other modules were set in these lands (eg X2 Castle Amber refers to Glantri, which appears on the Isle of Dread map), and the Gazetteer series elaborated on this campaign setting.</p><p></p><p>BECMI is a reboot of B/X, with Frank Mentzer as the lead designer. It is an acronym for Basic, Expert, Companion, Master and Immortal sets. Basic and Expert remained red and (darkish) blue; I think Companion was light blue; Master was black; and Immortal was, I think, a fawny-brown. The levels for Basic and Expert were as in B/X. Companion went from 15 to 20-something, and then Master up to 36. I don't own these, but besides some toughter monsters for higher level PCs, they also add some mechanical bells and whistles not found in B/X, and also stretch out some of the numbers (eg saving throw numbers; thief ability chances) to make the 36 level range work.</p><p></p><p>Immortals is about playing post-36th level godlings. I don't know much about it, but I think it introduced a whole lot of new mechanics for dealing with this sort of stuff. The Immortals rules (and maybe also the Master rules?) introduced a default cosmology which resembles in some respects but is not identical to the one found in Appendix IV of the AD&D PHB.</p><p></p><p>RC is Rules Compendium. This is a one-volume compilation of BECM, but no I. I have this, but because I don't have the earlier books I don't know if it adds or changes anything. It has rules for levels 1-36, which are similar but not identical to B/X. The spell lists go to level 9 for MUs and level 7 for clerics (like AD&D). There are more spells than in B/X, though not as many as AD&D and some of the spells (eg Create spells, if I'm remembering right) are not found in AD&D. There are monsters in this book that are not found in B/X, and not all of those new monsters are in AD&D either.</p><p></p><p>I know a lot of people swear by RC. Personally I think B/X is cleaner - the extra rules in RC seem a bit fiddly to me (like the option for a high level fighter to become a paladin) and I'm not 100% sure what they add to AD&D. And thieves in RC look even weaker than thieves in B/X, who on balance are probably weaker than thieves in AD&D despite having a better weapon selection.</p><p></p><p>Personally, I would say the cleanest ever version of classic (ie pre-2nd ed AD&D) D&D is Moldvay Basic.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7390447, member: 42582"] None of these is a pre-AD&D game. Like AD&D, they are attempts to present a game that is derived from, but in some respects cleaner than and better presented than, original D&D + supplements. B/X refers to Moldvay Basic (c 1981, a red booklet written by Tom Moldvay) and Cook/Marsh Expert (a blue booklet written by David Cook and Steve Marsh). Both booklets shipped as boxed sets that also contained a module (in my case, Keep on the Borderlands in Basic and The Isle of Dread in Expert) and dice. Basic had rules for levels 1-3, Expert for leves 4-14. Dwarf, Elf and Halfling are classes (with maximum levels of 12, 10 and 8 respectively); humans can be fighters, thieves (who can use any weapon), clerics, or magic-users. Both have monster sections, and magic item sections. The magic items in Basic are lower-powered than in Expert. Maximum "+" for swords and armour is +3 in Expert. Maximum spell level is 6 for MUs (and so the best attack spells are Disintegrate and Death Spell) and 5 for clerics (so Raise Dead is the most dramatic effect possible; and there is no Flame Strike spell). The basic feel of B/X is like AD&D but without the subclasses (no druids, paladins, rangers, illusionists, assassins, monks, bards), with fewer spells in the spell lists, and with significantly cleaner rules (and Moldvay Basic is stronger in this last respect than is Expert). There are a number of monsters in B/X that are not found in the MM or MMII for AD&D eg living statues, various giant insects, giant ferrets, a variety of golems, etc. The Expert book promised a Companion set to follow, which would include rules for levels 15 to 36. It never happened. B/X has no cosmology by default, but the Expert set introduces The Grand Duchy of Karameikos as a sample campaign area, and there is a map in The Isle of Dread that expands on that, adding more lands around the Grand Duchy. This was eventually labelled the "Known World", and later Mystara. Some other modules were set in these lands (eg X2 Castle Amber refers to Glantri, which appears on the Isle of Dread map), and the Gazetteer series elaborated on this campaign setting. BECMI is a reboot of B/X, with Frank Mentzer as the lead designer. It is an acronym for Basic, Expert, Companion, Master and Immortal sets. Basic and Expert remained red and (darkish) blue; I think Companion was light blue; Master was black; and Immortal was, I think, a fawny-brown. The levels for Basic and Expert were as in B/X. Companion went from 15 to 20-something, and then Master up to 36. I don't own these, but besides some toughter monsters for higher level PCs, they also add some mechanical bells and whistles not found in B/X, and also stretch out some of the numbers (eg saving throw numbers; thief ability chances) to make the 36 level range work. Immortals is about playing post-36th level godlings. I don't know much about it, but I think it introduced a whole lot of new mechanics for dealing with this sort of stuff. The Immortals rules (and maybe also the Master rules?) introduced a default cosmology which resembles in some respects but is not identical to the one found in Appendix IV of the AD&D PHB. RC is Rules Compendium. This is a one-volume compilation of BECM, but no I. I have this, but because I don't have the earlier books I don't know if it adds or changes anything. It has rules for levels 1-36, which are similar but not identical to B/X. The spell lists go to level 9 for MUs and level 7 for clerics (like AD&D). There are more spells than in B/X, though not as many as AD&D and some of the spells (eg Create spells, if I'm remembering right) are not found in AD&D. There are monsters in this book that are not found in B/X, and not all of those new monsters are in AD&D either. I know a lot of people swear by RC. Personally I think B/X is cleaner - the extra rules in RC seem a bit fiddly to me (like the option for a high level fighter to become a paladin) and I'm not 100% sure what they add to AD&D. And thieves in RC look even weaker than thieves in B/X, who on balance are probably weaker than thieves in AD&D despite having a better weapon selection. Personally, I would say the cleanest ever version of classic (ie pre-2nd ed AD&D) D&D is Moldvay Basic. [/QUOTE]
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