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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Beefermatic" data-source="post: 8574019" data-attributes="member: 6670757">Sup Krusty! <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="😜" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61c.png" title="Winking face with tongue    :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:" data-shortname=":stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" />Well, you're contradicting yourself there. You're saying that the surface of the sun does a different kind of fire damage, but does it really? No source material says that, not IH or the Manual of the Planes, or any other material I've seen vice DanDwiki creations like Atuin the Star Turtle.If we're just making things up on the fly that's tantamount to creating new rules mid game, and how is someone supposed to have a constructive or credible debate when one side is just making rulings up on the fly?There's literally no in game reason a ring of fire immunity which will let you go to the plane of fire unharmed, literally a permanent firestorm, shouldn't allow you to stand on the surface of the Sun. On a cosmic level the surface of the sun isn't even that hot, like a 2 or 3 out of 10, maybe even less when compared to the Planck temperatures, or even like a blue giant star, much less a freaking quasar. Yes divine fire exists, but is that not a divine product? Why would an environment produce a divine effect without a God or will present? Moreover that kind of fire is still half normal fire and thusly blocked by immunity. Look at the pulsed x-ray, that you created, of the Neutronium Golem. At what point does the immunity I the magic in a ring of fire immunity just 'stop', you tell me? Because even mortal casters are capable of stopping time, altering reality and teleporting across the cosmos. So say what you want but you're simply dumbing down the powers of Gods to make it "more exciting" when it's unnecessary and makes the campaign more roll heavy or "dangerous" when it doesn't actually much help the plot or the excitement of the campaign as all of it will still be perfumatory at best due to every single God being able to teleport and planeshift at will, so what's the point?I've ran my campaigns this way for going on 13 years and we've never had any problems whatsoever and all these so called backdrops you talk about simply allow for good and exciting storytelling without the party having to make a thousand unnecessary rolls when they're already having to make a thousand rolls, or have you forgotten all the rolls needing to be made in a single round of IH gameplay? For example in a single basic fight between a party of Gods fighting another party of Gods, or to a slightly lesser degree any party with epic enemy spellcasters of any significant level: Any passive effects from enemies, multiple spell saves, 20-25 in a row or much more, any divine aura, any gaze, any other aura, etc etc etc., which all players have to make every single round. So with that established, how will more saves make the game more exciting? It sounds good, but in reality it's making it tedious when it doesn't need to be. I can cite mechanics and flow of gameplay, but regardless of what I say, you seem to already have your mind made up, so what's the point of argument when one side already had their mind polarized and refuses to actually listen, give any ground, or understand why the other side may have the perspective they have? <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="😒" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f612.png" title="Unamused face    :unamused:" data-shortname=":unamused:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" />Regarding things like Tears of a Timelord or other unnatural environments or far less common than a single black hole or neutron star situations, the natural immunity, as presented, rules as written, only blocks natural effects, not magical effects or magical environments. I would like to believe the Tears of a freaking Time Lord would have some magical component to them. Lol.On that note, if you had a black hole that had devoured a dead magic zone, that should affect a God just fine, a black hole made of the remnants of a magic star, should affect a God just fine, any magic involved will neutralize a God's natural immunity, as per the RAW as it specifically states it only applies to natural effects and not magical effects, so just change that aspect and say black holes are partially magic in nature as they devour everything.Theoretically, all sufficiently powerful natural effects perhaps might or should have a magic component to them as in a world like dnd or IH magic is another elemental force of the universe like energy or matter, another component of the universe, so one would expect a black hole to have devoured a lot of magic over time, a strange star to have magic coursing through the quark gluon plasma of it's core, a white dwarf to be filled with not just cooling condensed nickel-iron but pure magic as well. From that perspective I can get behind the idea of extreme environments being too extreme for a basic divine being. Eventually though, and I believe it's at Sidereal level, they gain immunity to magical environments as well, which at that point, narratively speaking, would also make sense and in terms of gameplay mechanics, to make them immune to more extreme environments.Rule it as you will, but I think it's odd that you of all people would change the ruling on this given that so many monsters that are at an even level with gods, Adamic Dragons for example, are designed with the adaption power or other similar capabilities, which allows them to exist comfortably in any environment yet a God, who would, in general, smoke an Adamic Dragon unless it's a weak or badly rolled God and a strong Adamic, you think now shouldn't be able to. I thought that was the point of natural immunity? ¯\(ツ)/¯</blockquote>

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