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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 8575052" data-attributes="member: 326">Hey buddy!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> ...lets investigate.Tangentially, yes. While Fire is Fire, standing on the surface of the Sun would not just deal fire damage* but would come with crushing Gravitic Damage, Electromagnetic Bombardment, Crazy Pressure and the effect of constant nuclear explosions going off. *Also according to this next video the sun is NOT actually on fire.[URL unfurl="true"]https://www.businessinsider.com/what-if-humans-tried-landing-sun-2020-2?r=US&IR=T[/URL]Did they explain the gravity, pressures, electromagnetism and nuclear explosions that would be acting upon creatures and characters?I'm not making up stuff on the fly. I'm trying to mechanically explain gravity, pressure, electromagnetic waves and nuclear explosions in D&D. Heavy Gravity, Electromagnetic Waves, Constant Nuclear Explosions, Insane Crushing Pressure...four things the Plane of Fire doesn't have.According to you a Ring of Elemental Immunity is all we need to survive Planck Temperature. I don't have a problem with gods being immune to fire. But that won't let you survive the surface of the sun.I do have a problem with gods being immune to gravity, pressure, nukes and other such fundamental forces because it renders stellar phenomena utterly irrelevant.Its not about stopping fire damage, its about taking all the other forms of damage into account.I have no intention of retconning anything in the IH. But if you wanted to replicate an epic environment (such as the surface of the sun), immunity to fire won't suffice.My goal here is to make challenging epic environments for epic mortals, gods and potentially even sidereals. If we carte blanche say they are immune to everything then that becomes a pointless waste of time AND a missed opportunity, because having the environment be a hazard is a great part of D&D. Fighting on an event horizon would be cool, but if it has ZERO mechanical effect upon characters then it becomes WORTHLESS.I'm not retconning the IH or 3.5E. I already know its complex (overly so in my opinion). The question is not who's mind is made up. The questions are:1. Do we have mechanics to replicate the surface of the Sun, event horizon of a black hole etc.2. Would epic environments be a fun addition to epic/immortal/sidereal and if so what would they be?Perhaps every Sun is simply an 'atom' of the demiurge? There you go, then use that. All stellar phenomenon are in some part magical or sentient or derived from some magical sentient source.Exactly, at a certain level an immortal will be immune to a given environment. But at THAT point using such environments becomes pointless. Which then necessitates we come up with a NEW environment that DOES impact them.Maybe I'm going senile in my old age amigo. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />I want gods to fight on the surface of the Sun, even on an event horizon of a black hole. Those things should be EPIC encounters not interchangeable backdrops of irrelevance.DM: "This week you are battling an overgod on the event horizon of a black hole"Player: "Cool...so what effect does fighting on the event horizon have?"DM: "...well...none actually."Player: "<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f644.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes    :rolleyes:"  data-smilie="11"data-shortname=":rolleyes:" />"Something doesn't sit well with me when a deity can supposedly take a nap in the core of the Sun, but would take damage from a fireball from a 5th level wizard. I know why I went with it at the time, but I'm having trouble justifying it in my head.At the end of the day we can just use the "its a divine sun, or its a magical black hole" excuse, but if everything worth doing should be difficult, then the only time we will ever use a sun or black hole as environments is when they are magical...which defeats the point of having non-magical suns or black holes.</blockquote>

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