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Help: Gap between AC and defenses seems too large.
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<blockquote data-quote="WalterKovacs" data-source="post: 5570756" data-attributes="member: 63763"><p>Generally speaking:</p><p> </p><p>There are expertise feats: These give the PCs a bonus to their attack rolls using certain types of weapons or implements. If they are the newest ones, they give +1 at level 1, +2 at level 11 and +3 at level 21. This is addition to a rider effect as well.</p><p> </p><p>There are also improved defense feats: They can either take a single feat that gives +1 to all NADs (That go up at 11 and 21), or they can focus on individual NADs, and get a +2 (that again goes up at 11 and 21). For the single defense feats, there are two versions. The 'better' version needs you to have 15 in one of the stats for that defense, and gives a bonus (fort gives resistance to ongoing damage, reflex gives combat advantage in the first turn of the encounter, will gives a chance to save against stunned and dazed at the start of your turn). The only ways to boost AC are:</p><p> </p><p>(a) Armor proficiency (this includes unarmored agility, which is bascially leather prof, and hide expertise, which is actually weaker than chain prof, unless you are a barbarian)</p><p>(b) Shield proficiency (this includes shield bonuses like hafted defense and two weapon defense)</p><p>(c) Weapon proficiency (i.e. grabbing a defensive weapon, which even a defensive weapon+two weapon defense or hafted defense is about as good as a heavy shield).</p><p>(d) Class feature improvement, like the feat that makes the Avenger's AC boosting feat better</p><p>(e) At paragon tier there some armor (And shield) specialization feats. </p><p> </p><p>So, outside of d and e, you have pretty much a fixed range you can be in.</p><p> </p><p>Assuming a best case scenario (20 Dex or Int), you have cloth/leather giving you the same as scale armor, or hide giving you the same as plate. Shield bonuses are between 1 and 2. So, best case you start with 20 AC, and you can't really get 'better' than that.</p><p> </p><p>For NADs though, you should have two 'good' ones, depending on your stat allocation. Your race (in some cases) and class (in all cases) will change things. In many cases the build for a race will either support your best NAD (the Barbarian gets +2 to Fort, so they will likely have a GREAT Fort, and if they bulid Str/Con, there other stats will SUCK. They get the scaling bonus to reflex, but that is to encourage light armor use. A Str/Dex barbarian on the other hand can easily pull off having good AC, Fort and Reflex.</p><p> </p><p>If they don't take any of the defense boosting feats, or attack boosting feats, or defense boosting items (not just the neck slot stuff that is part of the inherent bonus system, but also feet slot for reflex, waist slot for fort, head slot for will, not to mention masterwork armors that give up extra AC to give a boost to a NAD instead), then those will lag behind. The math for AC was 'right' out of the gate, with masterwork and the armor spec feats baked in to make AC scale perfectly. Attack modifiers and defenses didn't do that, so they put in expertise feats, improved defenses, etc.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="WalterKovacs, post: 5570756, member: 63763"] Generally speaking: There are expertise feats: These give the PCs a bonus to their attack rolls using certain types of weapons or implements. If they are the newest ones, they give +1 at level 1, +2 at level 11 and +3 at level 21. This is addition to a rider effect as well. There are also improved defense feats: They can either take a single feat that gives +1 to all NADs (That go up at 11 and 21), or they can focus on individual NADs, and get a +2 (that again goes up at 11 and 21). For the single defense feats, there are two versions. The 'better' version needs you to have 15 in one of the stats for that defense, and gives a bonus (fort gives resistance to ongoing damage, reflex gives combat advantage in the first turn of the encounter, will gives a chance to save against stunned and dazed at the start of your turn). The only ways to boost AC are: (a) Armor proficiency (this includes unarmored agility, which is bascially leather prof, and hide expertise, which is actually weaker than chain prof, unless you are a barbarian) (b) Shield proficiency (this includes shield bonuses like hafted defense and two weapon defense) (c) Weapon proficiency (i.e. grabbing a defensive weapon, which even a defensive weapon+two weapon defense or hafted defense is about as good as a heavy shield). (d) Class feature improvement, like the feat that makes the Avenger's AC boosting feat better (e) At paragon tier there some armor (And shield) specialization feats. So, outside of d and e, you have pretty much a fixed range you can be in. Assuming a best case scenario (20 Dex or Int), you have cloth/leather giving you the same as scale armor, or hide giving you the same as plate. Shield bonuses are between 1 and 2. So, best case you start with 20 AC, and you can't really get 'better' than that. For NADs though, you should have two 'good' ones, depending on your stat allocation. Your race (in some cases) and class (in all cases) will change things. In many cases the build for a race will either support your best NAD (the Barbarian gets +2 to Fort, so they will likely have a GREAT Fort, and if they bulid Str/Con, there other stats will SUCK. They get the scaling bonus to reflex, but that is to encourage light armor use. A Str/Dex barbarian on the other hand can easily pull off having good AC, Fort and Reflex. If they don't take any of the defense boosting feats, or attack boosting feats, or defense boosting items (not just the neck slot stuff that is part of the inherent bonus system, but also feet slot for reflex, waist slot for fort, head slot for will, not to mention masterwork armors that give up extra AC to give a boost to a NAD instead), then those will lag behind. The math for AC was 'right' out of the gate, with masterwork and the armor spec feats baked in to make AC scale perfectly. Attack modifiers and defenses didn't do that, so they put in expertise feats, improved defenses, etc. [/QUOTE]
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Help: Gap between AC and defenses seems too large.
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