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<blockquote data-quote="Aldarc" data-source="post: 8442613" data-attributes="member: 5142">Okay, but here is the first part of the definition you posted: There is a link for &quot;Middle Ages&quot; that further clarifies the term: Middle Ages as a period of European history is indeed what the Wikipedia article for the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ages" target="_blank">Middle Ages</a> focuses on. When it's applied to non-European cultures (e.g., Japan, India, etc.), it generally refers to periods of (questionably) similar socio-cultural developments (e.g., feudalism). (1) This is equivocating on terms. (2) I am aware that 'medieval' can refer to history, and I am not ignoring history, but it predominately applies to a European conception of its own history. This European orientation is the foremost understanding of what is meant by &quot;medieval&quot; or &quot;middle ages.&quot; (3) Furthermore, any setting can be classified &quot;medieval&quot; or &quot;middle&quot; if this is the loose criteria that you want to apply, as nearly all settings precede from the &quot;middle&quot; chronology of their respective histories. But you are not exactly making a strong case that Dark Sun constitutes &quot;medieval&quot; or &quot;middle.&quot; That it's a dystopian post-apocalyptic setting that possibly preceded from a Middle Age aesthetic doesn't mean that it's present aesthetic is medieval/Middle or that people would regard it as a medieval/Middle setting. Did the Green Age evidence a feudal society or Middle Age aesthetic?Jein. We can talk about what was happening in Japan and China during the European Middle Ages (~500 to 1500 CE). We can also talk about Feudal Japan (~1185 to 1600 CE) or China between the fall of the Han Dynasty to the rise of the Ming Dynasty (~220 to 1368 CE). And while I do think that you see &quot;Medieval China&quot; or &quot;Medieval Japan&quot; floating around, I highly suspect that there is a lot of resistance to these terms by the respective scholars of the field as representing European conceptions of history (i.e., the European Middle Ages) that are being projected onto the histories of non-Europeans that don't actually reflect how these cultures view/classify their own histories. It is not merely an aesthetic conceit, but it is the most relevant concern when talking about whether Dark Sun constitutes a medieval setting or not as this is generally a question of the setting's aesthetics, cultural underpinnings, etc. (Here I'm putting a pin in the discussion about whether D&amp;D is really &quot;medieval&quot; or if &quot;medieval&quot; represents the lipstick on a decidely &quot;modern&quot; pig.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Aldarc, post: 8442613, member: 5142"] Okay, but here is the first part of the definition you posted: There is a link for "Middle Ages" that further clarifies the term: Middle Ages as a period of European history is indeed what the Wikipedia article for the [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ages'][B]Middle Ages[/B][/URL] focuses on. When it's applied to non-European cultures (e.g., Japan, India, etc.), it generally refers to periods of (questionably) similar socio-cultural developments (e.g., feudalism). (1) This is equivocating on terms. (2) I am aware that 'medieval' can refer to history, and I am not ignoring history, but it [I]predominately[/I] applies to a European conception of its own history. This European orientation is the foremost understanding of what is meant by "medieval" or "middle ages." (3) Furthermore, any setting can be classified "medieval" or "middle" if this is the loose criteria that you want to apply, as nearly all settings precede from the "middle" chronology of their respective histories. But you are not exactly making a strong case that Dark Sun constitutes "medieval" or "middle." That it's a dystopian post-apocalyptic setting that [I]possibly[/I] preceded from a Middle Age aesthetic doesn't mean that it's present aesthetic is medieval/Middle or that people would regard it as a medieval/Middle setting. Did the Green Age evidence a feudal society or Middle Age aesthetic? [I]Jein.[/I] We can talk about what was happening in Japan and China during the European Middle Ages (~500 to 1500 CE). We can also talk about Feudal Japan (~1185 to 1600 CE) or China between the fall of the Han Dynasty to the rise of the Ming Dynasty (~220 to 1368 CE). And while I do think that you see "Medieval China" or "Medieval Japan" floating around, I highly suspect that there is a lot of resistance to these terms by the respective scholars of the field as representing European conceptions of history (i.e., the European Middle Ages) that are being projected onto the histories of non-Europeans that don't actually reflect how these cultures view/classify their own histories. It is not merely an aesthetic conceit, but it is the most relevant concern when talking about whether Dark Sun constitutes a medieval setting or not as this is generally a question of the setting's aesthetics, cultural underpinnings, etc. (Here I'm putting a pin in the discussion about whether D&D is really "medieval" or if "medieval" represents the lipstick on a decidely "modern" pig.) [/QUOTE]

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