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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7367614" data-attributes="member: 12731">Thank you for good questions.Yes and yes - 5E rules or 3E inspiration I can use to create 5E magic effects.When I say &quot;optimizing opportunity attacks&quot; I say the player doesn't use those methods. They're on the level of system mastery as I'm sure you'll agree. This player dislikes multiclassing and is happy playing a singleclassed Thief Rogue.I guess he just expected sneak damage to bring him close to the top. But compared to my other über-optimized characters making a single attack for maybe 30 points of damage just doesn't cut it. In the first round he's having trouble even getting a sneak attack, and if he makes a miss the second attack chances are he will end up at the bottom. The Totem Barbarian Champion, the Paladin Warlock, the Fire Dragon Sorcerer, the Monk all reliably do 30 damage each round. Maybe double that when lucky (or going all out). In contrast the Rogue simply does not have any &quot;overdrive&quot; to gear into. Not from the build angle (no feats, items or class features to focus on damage). Not from the play angle (no &quot;encounter&quot; or &quot;daily&quot; powers that elevate damage output. About the only thing I've seen is Assassinate, and we are in agreement that's dysfunctional in a hack'n'slash campaign where nobody has any patience for subtlety) In a theoretical infinite adventuring day, sure sneak might look okay. And in a campaign with all options turned off (that is crunch-poor) maybe it automatically does okay. But I am feeling my player's pain here; getting squeezed the traditional way: not good enough to play with the martials in combat; not useful/flexible enough to claw equal spotlight with the casters. About his sole schtick that works well is classic thief spot hidden / look for traps stuff. But since maybe 90% of our build and minmax energies are spent on combat I'm hoping for ideas that allow him a shot at second sneaks in as organic and non-cheesy ways as possible <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 7367614, member: 12731"] Thank you for good questions. Yes and yes - 5E rules or 3E inspiration I can use to create 5E magic effects. When I say "optimizing opportunity attacks" I say the player doesn't use those methods. They're on the level of system mastery as I'm sure you'll agree. This player dislikes multiclassing and is happy playing a singleclassed Thief Rogue. I guess he just expected sneak damage to bring him close to the top. But compared to my other über-optimized characters making a single attack for maybe 30 points of damage just doesn't cut it. In the first round he's having trouble even getting a sneak attack, and if he makes a miss the second attack chances are he will end up at the bottom. The Totem Barbarian Champion, the Paladin Warlock, the Fire Dragon Sorcerer, the Monk all reliably do 30 damage each round. Maybe double that when lucky (or going all out). In contrast the Rogue simply does not have any "overdrive" to gear into. Not from the build angle (no feats, items or class features to focus on damage). Not from the play angle (no "encounter" or "daily" powers that elevate damage output. About the only thing I've seen is Assassinate, and we are in agreement that's dysfunctional in a hack'n'slash campaign where nobody has any patience for subtlety) In a theoretical infinite adventuring day, sure sneak might look okay. And in a campaign with all options turned off (that is crunch-poor) maybe it automatically does okay. But I am feeling my player's pain here; getting squeezed the traditional way: not good enough to play with the martials in combat; not useful/flexible enough to claw equal spotlight with the casters. About his sole schtick that works well is classic thief spot hidden / look for traps stuff. But since maybe 90% of our build and minmax energies are spent on combat I'm hoping for ideas that allow him a shot at second sneaks in as organic and non-cheesy ways as possible :) [/QUOTE]

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