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Message: <blockquote data-quote="kkoie" data-source="post: 543754" data-attributes="member: 1160">Ok I'm not hyperventalating and I'm not forgetting the word fun.  This, in the most simple terms possible, is my point.The CR's for Red and Blue dragons are 25 and 24 respectively.  If the 18th level PC in question, wins once, against a red or blue dragon, when he is fighting by himself.  Then quite frankly, the DM screwed up and didn't do his job well, or just doesn't know how to properly play a dragon.I can see an 18th PC getting lucky and killing a great white wyrm, considering its CR is 20.  But for dragons like a blue or red, we are talking a complitely differn't situation.In my last campaign, when my PC's fought a great red wyrm, there were about 6 or 7 characters, and the average level was 20.  The dragon itself was not a carbon copy from the MM, but it was a straight dragon, no extra class levels.  And about half of the party were completely incapasitated or just totally blown away before they killed the dragon.  And they did indeed prepare well in advance and got some lucky rolls.  And one of them was a psion who used that totally BS psion smackdown with psychic feedback (that was before I knew how broken a psion can be).So I don't mean to come off like I'm getting red in the face when I'm responding about your smackdown techniques and whatnot.  It's just that on general princeple, when facing a single 18th level character, a dragon should almost always win.</blockquote>

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