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<blockquote data-quote="Sekhmet" data-source="post: 5647577" data-attributes="member: 97602">...erm.Monks: d8, average BAB, few skill points, low damage, lots of hits, but overall not an amazing martial class.&nbsp;Consider that Monks cannot enchant their fists beyond +5. No elemental damage, no extra specials. &nbsp;This makes weapon wielding Monks superior once enchantments become available, and then they're not that impressive compared to other weapon using classes (Barbs, Fighters, etc).&nbsp;Simply: 1d20 (average damage 10) is weaker than 1d6+3d6 elemental properties (average damage 12), and absolutely weaker than some special properties able to attached (read: Magic Item Compendium). &nbsp;They also lack the ability to deal special damage properties early on (Cold Iron, Adamantine, Ghost Touch, etc). &nbsp;Prior to enchantments, a monk's AC is lower than a typical martial class - no armor, ability scores having to be spread out between Wis, Dex, and Str, and few combat oriented class features.&nbsp;We'll consider an ANTI MAGIC FIELD for a moment.&nbsp;A Druid vs. a Monk at level 20.&nbsp;Druid has stats 8, 16, 10, 8 INT, 20 WIS, 8 CHA and a Dire Tiger (120 HP, 17 AC, Full Attack: 2 Claws +20 (2d4+8) and Bite +14 (2d6 +4), Grapple of +24.&nbsp;The Monk has +5 AC from level 20, +6 from Wis and Dex, thats a 21 AC.&nbsp;The Dire Tiger charges (with Pounce), hits the Monk on a roll of 1 (+22 for Charging), deals 2 claw attacks (with a roll of 1), a bite (on a roll of 7), a rake (on a 3) with 2d8+4 with a free grapple (+24, the monk would need a +13 str modifier (15+str) to compare to the Tiger's grapple check). &nbsp;The Dire Tiger proceeds to rake and eat the hell out of the Monk until the Monk is dead.&nbsp;And the Druid has done nothing but whisper lovingly into the Tiger's ear.&nbsp;Outside of an AntiMagic Field, the Druid is at a clear advantage - being able to Wild Shape into any number of impressive creatures or elementals, having access to level 9 spells that negate or otherwise hinder the Monk, among other silly little Druid tricks (like turning into a bird, flying away, and letting the Dire Tiger eat you.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sekhmet, post: 5647577, member: 97602"] ...erm. Monks: d8, average BAB, few skill points, low damage, lots of hits, but overall not an amazing martial class. Consider that Monks cannot enchant their fists beyond +5. No elemental damage, no extra specials. This makes weapon wielding Monks superior once enchantments become available, and then they're not that impressive compared to other weapon using classes (Barbs, Fighters, etc). Simply: 1d20 (average damage 10) is weaker than 1d6+3d6 elemental properties (average damage 12), and absolutely weaker than some special properties able to attached (read: Magic Item Compendium). They also lack the ability to deal special damage properties early on (Cold Iron, Adamantine, Ghost Touch, etc). Prior to enchantments, a monk's AC is lower than a typical martial class - no armor, ability scores having to be spread out between Wis, Dex, and Str, and few combat oriented class features. We'll consider an ANTI MAGIC FIELD for a moment. A Druid vs. a Monk at level 20. Druid has stats 8, 16, 10, 8 INT, 20 WIS, 8 CHA and a Dire Tiger (120 HP, 17 AC, Full Attack: 2 Claws +20 (2d4+8) and Bite +14 (2d6 +4), Grapple of +24. The Monk has +5 AC from level 20, +6 from Wis and Dex, thats a 21 AC. The Dire Tiger charges (with Pounce), hits the Monk on a roll of 1 (+22 for Charging), deals 2 claw attacks (with a roll of 1), a bite (on a roll of 7), a rake (on a 3) with 2d8+4 with a free grapple (+24, the monk would need a +13 str modifier (15+str) to compare to the Tiger's grapple check). The Dire Tiger proceeds to rake and eat the hell out of the Monk until the Monk is dead. And the Druid has done nothing but whisper lovingly into the Tiger's ear. Outside of an AntiMagic Field, the Druid is at a clear advantage - being able to Wild Shape into any number of impressive creatures or elementals, having access to level 9 spells that negate or otherwise hinder the Monk, among other silly little Druid tricks (like turning into a bird, flying away, and letting the Dire Tiger eat you.) [/QUOTE]

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