Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Help me eliminate scaling from 4e!
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Psikus" data-source="post: 5645171" data-attributes="member: 66049"><p>That looks like a hard thing to implement. From what I see, you'd like to do away with anything that improves character stats, and instead focus on adding options when a character gains a level. The problem is, most options in the game are used to increase character stats!</p><p></p><p>Consider feats. There are a few very cool feats that grant you powers, but for the most part, the feats people take bring an increase to damage, attack, defenses, HP, or even skills. So you're still scaling stats, though at a much slower pace. What is worse, many feats (usually of a taxy nature) come with inherent scaling - stuff like expertise, toughness, or superior defenses. You'll want to ban those, or at least errata them heavily. But even then, there's the deeper problem: does it make sense to keep feats, if most of the time they are used to increase stats, which is what you are actively trying to avoid?</p><p></p><p>And then there are powers. For the most part, more powers and higher level ones translate into a damage increase, though there are other implications. Having increasing damage values seems to be impossible to avoid, given your requirements. Is it possible to have just that? At the very </p><p> least, I'd have monster HP increase at a similar rate as PC damage. In fact, the easiest thing would be to keep all damage scaling intact (weapon enhancement bonuses, item bonuses, and ability increases -affecting damage but NOT defenses or attack!-, or something equivalent) so that the current monster HP math can be reused (rather than inventing a new one).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Unfortunately, I don't think you can do <em>the same</em> for monsters - PCs already get more and better options as they level up, but monsters are pretty much defined by their stats and a couple of powers. You would be taking away scaling, without giving them much in return. You could have monsters with constant stats and slightly stronger effects (paragon and epic monsters tend to be larger, fly more often, and have more stuns and dominates), but other than that there wouldn't be much difference between a kobold or a giant - except HP, if you're trying to keep up with PC damage.</p><p></p><p>A compromise solution would be to have both monsters and PCs to scale in HP and damage. You'd also want to scale XP costs to a much more linear progression, since the gap between lower level monsters and higher level ones would be much more narrow. Minions would be particularly hard to balance, since their damage varies very slowly.</p><p></p><p>Either that, or just have one monster level, and have PCs face increasing numbers of equivalent monsters as they gain feats and powers.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Psikus, post: 5645171, member: 66049"] That looks like a hard thing to implement. From what I see, you'd like to do away with anything that improves character stats, and instead focus on adding options when a character gains a level. The problem is, most options in the game are used to increase character stats! Consider feats. There are a few very cool feats that grant you powers, but for the most part, the feats people take bring an increase to damage, attack, defenses, HP, or even skills. So you're still scaling stats, though at a much slower pace. What is worse, many feats (usually of a taxy nature) come with inherent scaling - stuff like expertise, toughness, or superior defenses. You'll want to ban those, or at least errata them heavily. But even then, there's the deeper problem: does it make sense to keep feats, if most of the time they are used to increase stats, which is what you are actively trying to avoid? And then there are powers. For the most part, more powers and higher level ones translate into a damage increase, though there are other implications. Having increasing damage values seems to be impossible to avoid, given your requirements. Is it possible to have just that? At the very least, I'd have monster HP increase at a similar rate as PC damage. In fact, the easiest thing would be to keep all damage scaling intact (weapon enhancement bonuses, item bonuses, and ability increases -affecting damage but NOT defenses or attack!-, or something equivalent) so that the current monster HP math can be reused (rather than inventing a new one). Unfortunately, I don't think you can do [I]the same[/I] for monsters - PCs already get more and better options as they level up, but monsters are pretty much defined by their stats and a couple of powers. You would be taking away scaling, without giving them much in return. You could have monsters with constant stats and slightly stronger effects (paragon and epic monsters tend to be larger, fly more often, and have more stuns and dominates), but other than that there wouldn't be much difference between a kobold or a giant - except HP, if you're trying to keep up with PC damage. A compromise solution would be to have both monsters and PCs to scale in HP and damage. You'd also want to scale XP costs to a much more linear progression, since the gap between lower level monsters and higher level ones would be much more narrow. Minions would be particularly hard to balance, since their damage varies very slowly. Either that, or just have one monster level, and have PCs face increasing numbers of equivalent monsters as they gain feats and powers. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Help me eliminate scaling from 4e!
Top