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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Randomthoughts" data-source="post: 6077945" data-attributes="member: 6681248">I've seen the warden in play and yes they are very effective, one of top defender classes IMO. But in relation to the fighter? I'm still leaning toward the fighter. Hmmmm....Ok, I was hoping someone would bring up the Avenger (my reference to it was subliminal messaging, intended to spark a debate on whether they're super cool or only so so). One of the first 4e classes I played was a Deva Retribution Avenger. The damage was so so (by design) and yeah, I often didn't miss, but I never rolled a crit <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f621.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":mad:" title="Mad    :mad:"  data-smilie="4"data-shortname=":mad:" /> which colors my view somewhat. But the concept was just so awesome and its powers like teleport and such just dripped with flavor. The GM though used a lot of meta knowledge to avoid attacking me (the more I was hit, the more I do damage). Play was ... awkward. But I eventually multiclassed into cleric, which helped a bit. Can someone convince me for or against the Avenger?I also played both Rogues, the Thief and the Scoundrel. The Scoundrel was in fact the first 4e class I played and... it sucked. Well, it was a new group (which meant everyone for himself) and it was difficult to get CA without getting into serious trouble. OTOH, I played the Thief in a con to avoid this, and it went really well. It's so ridiculously easy to get CA with the Thief, it's criminal. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> Anyway, I like the Rogue, especially its wide variety of skills, but tbh I prefer the Avenger (ahh if only someone could convince me....).That brings me to the Changeling.... This is good advice. As a GM, I've wished someone would pick the Changeling, just cuz I think they open up a lot of RPing potential. But this group I'm joining is new; I don't know the other players or the GM, so something as challenging as the Changeling may not be the best thing right now. TallyFor Controller, I'll be looking at the Invoker but I'm leaning toward Wizard. Wanted to say though that I have seen a Druid in play (the PHB2 version) and both see and have played a Psion. Druids (at least at low heroic level) actually seem like great controllers (and if Wizards are even better, wow). I had a blast playing a Psion at a con; the point system was very flexible.For Defender, I'm still leaning toward the Fighter. I've seen it in action and am excited to play the 4e version. But I am considering the paladin mainly for the flavor (I like that you don't have to be LG) and its secondary healing abilities.For Leader, I think I'll drop the "safe" bet of Cleric and try the Warlord. But again, another player has dibs on it. We shall see...Finally, for Striker, I'm torn. Rogue vs Avenger? I'm also looking at @shidau's recommendation of Warlock (a class I've never played or see anyone play). Anyone?</blockquote>

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