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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8698719" data-attributes="member: 6696971">I said my piece and I meant every word of it.&nbsp; There is an abundance of specific and layered explanation and &quot;what this game isn't&quot; in there.But if that didn't help and you learn differently.&nbsp; Lets try another tack.&nbsp; Engage in the conversation a bit more so I understand where you're not getting something.Lets try this.&nbsp; Give me a short list of reasons you think Apocalypse World conversation might lead to &quot;a locked door.&quot;&nbsp; What is happening in the fiction.&nbsp; Give me the words you would be saying at the table that might lead to this locked door and then might frame this locked door.&nbsp; As a template, I'm going to give you an AW situation that I might frame (building off of the above):GM:&nbsp; &quot;Muck's entire hold is empty.&nbsp; Garages open and barren.&nbsp; Tanks utterly emptied.&nbsp; Fresh tracks like they lit out quick and within the last day (certainly after that massive dust storm last night).&nbsp; No sign of a fight anywhere.Except...the long-ruined-and-rusted hydraulic doors to the basement of their main garage is barred and chained...just a mess of metal...oh and its slagged...like someone took a blowtorch to it.There is a terrible stench coming from it.&nbsp; Maybe rot?&nbsp; Maybe decay?&nbsp; Like oil drums have been spilled.&nbsp; Like rubber has been burned.&nbsp; Its so hostile to your senses that its dizzying.&quot;Player 1:&nbsp; &quot;I knew we spent too much damn time before confronting Muck.&nbsp; We've come for Hosea...he's gotta be down there.&quot;Player 2:&nbsp; &quot;We should have just given Muck what he wanted long ago.&quot;Player 3 &lt;Savvyhead&gt;:&nbsp; &quot;Alright, enough talk.&nbsp; I move forward, put my hands on the slagged mess of metal that prevents us from getting down there and let this stuff speak to me &lt;triggering Things Speak - a psychic maelstrom move that lets you Read a Sitch but with psychic powers of viewing/divination&gt;.&quot;Alright, so is Hosea down there?* If the Threat Clock got all wedges filled, then Hosea would in fact be dead down there amongst some kind of other horrors that engage with play/playbooks to date.* If not, then a 6- on that Things Speak move could very well trigger the Savvyhead remote viewing the past and seeing Hosea's last moments but also some sort of new terrible news with something smashing against the basement doors...with dreadful intent on getting out and laying waste to whatever's above.&nbsp; Or that 6- might mean that they've lit out with Hosea in their caravan (maybe strapped to the hood of the lead vehicle as an ornament) but some other terrible thing is in that basement.* On a 7-9 or a 10+ (and no Threat Clock &quot;Wedging Full&quot; prior), the Saavyhead asks questions &gt; gets true answers/visions &gt; the situation and Hosea's life is still in the balance somewhere down in the mess below.[HR][/HR]So that is what &quot;a locked door&quot; situation might look like in AW.Now list me some things that you think might constitute &quot;a locked door&quot; in AW and we'll examine your &quot;toy locked door&quot; models to see if they're AW-legit.&nbsp; This sort of exercise might help you more than anything else.EDIT - Maybe frame your thoughts like this:1)&nbsp; &quot;What is the point of an obstacle to a goal in a particular system and how do we determine its legitimacy&quot; is an interesting, foundational design and implementation question.2)&nbsp; Different systems have different answers to both “the point” and “legitimacy.”3)&nbsp; In Apocalypse World what defines &amp; resolves the question of &quot;the point&quot; and &quot;legitimacy.&quot;EDIT * 2&nbsp; - &quot;When do I (GM) get to kill NPC Hosea (?)&quot; is also an important question to someone wanting to GM and play AW.&nbsp; I laid out the answer in the above.&nbsp; I hope that is clear.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 8698719, member: 6696971"] I said my piece and I meant every word of it. There is an abundance of specific and layered explanation and "what this game isn't" in there. But if that didn't help and you learn differently. Lets try another tack. Engage in the conversation a bit more so I understand where you're not getting something. Lets try this. Give me a short list of reasons you think Apocalypse World conversation might lead to "a locked door." What is happening in the fiction. Give me the words you would be saying at the table that might lead to this locked door and then might frame this locked door. As a template, I'm going to give you an AW situation that I might frame (building off of the above): GM: "Muck's entire hold is empty. Garages open and barren. Tanks utterly emptied. Fresh tracks like they lit out quick and within the last day (certainly after that massive dust storm last night). No sign of a fight anywhere. Except...the long-ruined-and-rusted hydraulic doors to the basement of their main garage is barred and chained...just a mess of metal...oh and its slagged...like someone took a blowtorch to it. There is a terrible stench coming from it. Maybe rot? Maybe decay? Like oil drums have been spilled. Like rubber has been burned. Its so hostile to your senses that its dizzying." Player 1: "I knew we spent too much damn time before confronting Muck. We've come for Hosea...he's gotta be down there." Player 2: "We should have just given Muck what he wanted long ago." Player 3 <Savvyhead>: "Alright, enough talk. I move forward, put my hands on the slagged mess of metal that prevents us from getting down there and let this stuff speak to me <triggering Things Speak - a psychic maelstrom move that lets you Read a Sitch but with psychic powers of viewing/divination>." Alright, so is Hosea down there? * If the Threat Clock got all wedges filled, then Hosea would in fact be dead down there amongst some kind of other horrors that engage with play/playbooks to date. * If not, then a 6- on that Things Speak move could very well trigger the Savvyhead remote viewing the past and seeing Hosea's last moments but also some sort of new terrible news with something smashing against the basement doors...with dreadful intent on getting out and laying waste to whatever's above. Or that 6- might mean that they've lit out with Hosea in their caravan (maybe strapped to the hood of the lead vehicle as an ornament) but some other terrible thing is in that basement. * On a 7-9 or a 10+ (and no Threat Clock "Wedging Full" prior), the Saavyhead asks questions > gets true answers/visions > the situation and Hosea's life is still in the balance somewhere down in the mess below. [HR][/HR] So that is what "a locked door" situation might look like in AW. Now list me some things that you think might constitute "a locked door" in AW and we'll examine your "toy locked door" models to see if they're AW-legit. This sort of exercise might help you more than anything else. EDIT - Maybe frame your thoughts like this: 1) "What is the point of an obstacle to a goal in a particular system and how do we determine its legitimacy" is an interesting, foundational design and implementation question. 2) Different systems have different answers to both “the point” and “legitimacy.” 3) In Apocalypse World what defines & resolves the question of "the point" and "legitimacy." EDIT * 2 - "When do I (GM) get to kill NPC Hosea (?)" is also an important question to someone wanting to GM and play AW. I laid out the answer in the above. I hope that is clear. [/QUOTE]

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