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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8700380" data-attributes="member: 82106">Right, but with regards specifically to the 'locked door example' there's no move that this represents... How does it fit into the conversation? There's no established pressure, and no established obstacle to overcome, so what did the GM do when they said &quot;you see a door&quot;? I think that's the nut of it is that the whole example wasn't good from the start! Either the players already had an established goal of getting in and the GM says &quot;OK, you are able to slip inside via a side door, somewhere up ahead in the darkness you hear the low growl of a dog...&quot; or &quot;There's a side door, you aren't sure if you can get through, but you hear bikes coming up the access road.&quot; Now, in the later case, the PCs can attempt to get through the door, maybe they will, maybe they won't... Either way, something is at stake. A PC standing in front of a door, in and of itself, doesn't seem like the legitimate outcome of whatever the GM was supposed to do after what came before, IMHO. And frankly I think this is the problem with a lot of PbtA play when you have participants coming from trad games like D&amp;D. D&amp;D fundamentally exposes the world in terms of a kind of 'stream of consciousness' process where the GM is describing the environment they have constructed. This NEVER HAPPENS in PbtA! (at least not AW or DW). There is no fixed environment in such a Story Now game! There are simply obstacles and conflicts to be resolved which the obstacles block you from successfully resolving. You play to find out what the resolution is. 'Describe Scenery' is not a move, LOL! The GM is not obligated to drag the players along and describe every possible decision point where they might go left or right etc. All that needs to be described are obstacles. So, for instance in Dungeon World you would never just have a 'T intersection', you would have a junction where each option appears to be fraught, and something is chasing you so you better choose one NOW! (or some other clock is ticking, etc. though DW doesn't actually say anything much about clocks like AW2E or FitD based games do).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8700380, member: 82106"] Right, but with regards specifically to the 'locked door example' there's no move that this represents... How does it fit into the conversation? There's no established pressure, and no established obstacle to overcome, so what did the GM do when they said "you see a door"? I think that's the nut of it is that the whole example wasn't good from the start! Either the players already had an established goal of getting in and the GM says "OK, you are able to slip inside via a side door, somewhere up ahead in the darkness you hear the low growl of a dog..." or "There's a side door, you aren't sure if you can get through, but you hear bikes coming up the access road." Now, in the later case, the PCs can attempt to get through the door, maybe they will, maybe they won't... Either way, something is at stake. A PC standing in front of a door, in and of itself, doesn't seem like the legitimate outcome of whatever the GM was supposed to do after what came before, IMHO. And frankly I think this is the problem with a lot of PbtA play when you have participants coming from trad games like D&D. D&D fundamentally exposes the world in terms of a kind of 'stream of consciousness' process where the GM is describing the environment they have constructed. This NEVER HAPPENS in PbtA! (at least not AW or DW). There is no fixed environment in such a Story Now game! There are simply obstacles and conflicts to be resolved which the obstacles block you from successfully resolving. You play to find out what the resolution is. 'Describe Scenery' is not a move, LOL! The GM is not obligated to drag the players along and describe every possible decision point where they might go left or right etc. All that needs to be described are obstacles. So, for instance in Dungeon World you would never just have a 'T intersection', you would have a junction where each option appears to be fraught, and something is chasing you so you better choose one NOW! (or some other clock is ticking, etc. though DW doesn't actually say anything much about clocks like AW2E or FitD based games do). [/QUOTE]

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