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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 732016" data-attributes="member: 7635">Quiet understandable. I just think you got more for your money with 2e rangers than with 3e ones, esp in comparison to fighters.  Yea gods, I tried several times to remove it when I played. However, it was really one of the few selling points for warrior types. I much prefer the Basic D&D ability chart to either AD&D chart.  Depended on the setting/rulesbook. Complete Priest Handbook: Too weak. Legends and Lore: Much nicer. Faiths and Avatars: Waaay too much.  However, they got a save bonus (arcane defense), a save penalty (spell focus), a research bonus, and a learn spell bonus. This is akin to 2.5 free feats in 3e. The tradeoff was prechosen schools. This meant specialists had to be more resourceful than 3e ones do.  True. However these 3e staples DO exist in 2e, they are just more... optional.  Planescape in my personal favorite TSR setting. Manual of the Planes comes close, but doesn't capture the wonder of the planes like PS did. This wasn't a large selling point for myself, but some people like fighters to remain, fighters. Same with rangers, rogues, ect. There wasn't the "pick and choose " your level mentality that does exist in 3e. but they were still rangers, not two-weapon-fighting-rogues. Except for the lack of higher level bardsongs, 2e bards were better all around than 3e. You could be proficient in longsword AND longbow! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> The vastly superior game prep tool that was the basis for Master Tools, except it got everthing RIGHT! Mappers, custom classes, PO support, everything a DM would need.  This had more to do with the limited professions of elf and the lack of any racial traits for humans. In 3e, they lost both thier advantages.  Granted, but these are huge and practically complete. Too bad they came at the end of 2e.  Most everything converted direct from 1e/2e to 3e is best scrapped and recreated in the same theme. Kits, great idea, poor execution, but as the prestige class vs. kit debate (happening in this thread shows), they had thier place in 2e.  Weapon Focus did exist in Combat and Tactics/Skills and Powers, look under Weapon of Choice. However, you are right, 2e thieves got jack for bonus's and were poor to play at higher level. Your best bet was to MC with thief, that way you'd be useful later too. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> matters a lot to a 10/10 wizard/cleric in 3e vs a 16/16 mage/cleric in 2e.  I dunno, saw lots of things fall to that spell. Either way, the other spells mentioned got seriously nerfed. (Find Trap, how I miss ye!)<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> They had to have intuiton, common sense, and experience. Granted, I'd rather play 3e any old day of the week, but remember, in the End, if you had fun, it doesn't matter if its 2e, 3e or Monopoly. Role-play your PC and have fun.</blockquote>

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