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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jack99" data-source="post: 5108841" data-attributes="member: 53135">I think most of what I have to say has been said already, but due to it being so true, I wanted to repeat it..First of all, let me say that I am a huge 4e fanboy and own everything made by WotC so far, as well as everything made by all major 4e 3PP's and in my mind, there is little doubt that your adventures are by far the weakest products WotC produces. With that said, I have never been part of the camp that thought they were horrible. Some are very good, but there are some things that could definitely be improved upon.Now, in order to do so, what you should work on is the rhythm, the pacing of the adventures. As is, there are just too many combat encounters in an adventure. This makes them slog along, feeling boring. Now, back in the good old days, there would be a lot of encounters as well. Problem is, modern day combat takes a lot longer. This means that on a game night, typically 4-5 hours or so, the story will progress very little, because the time will be spent going through 4 encounters against some kobolds/goblins/orcs etc. The players and DM will frequently leave the table with the feeling that they didn't really achieve much, at least not story-wise. Sure, they might have killed some monsters (which is certainly fun), but the story is still at more or less the same point as it was before they sat down at the table.So, what I would like are adventures where;1)You do not spend 8 sessions in the same dungeon.2) You get to the meat of the adventure quickly. Don't make 5 (random) encounters before they get to the dungeon. And when I say (random), I mean encounters that does not progress the story at all. And that does not only hold true before the dungeon. Inside the dungeon as well.3) With the space gained from removing adventures, you should add in more fluff, more RP encounters/skill challenges, more puzzles, more traps, more interesting NPC's and more story. In short more detail.Below are a couple of examples of some notes I have taken regarding two adventures from Dungeon.[sblock=Example - Heathen]Heathen is a fairly straightforward adventure. The PC's, who are at the edge of civilization, land by mistake in the middle of a cult war. In order to help the Light of the Sun-cult (the good guys), the PC's go on a search mission for a missing paladin, (former) leader of the Light of the Sun. Their trek takes them through the ravaged country-side, finally ending up at the Pillars of Night, an ancient site built by giants, now taken over by the Hand of Naarash (the bad guys). There they discover (first twist) that the paladin did indeed make it here, but that he has switched side and is now the leader of the Hand of Naarash. Fighting their way into the paladin's inner sanctum, the PC's discover that the paladin has been corrupted by a demon (second twist) and have to face that as well.I like this adventure, but as many other official adventures, it could do with joining a fitness club and get the fat trimmed a bit.IMO, a simple adventure like this should not be more than 6 encounters long.In order to make a shorter, yet cohesive adventure, I would do the following:Either use one of the hooks, or make one that fits your campaign. The cut the first two encounters. Blades in the Night should be first encounter. The other two serves little purpose other than fillers. While some love random encounters (I use them for myself), they are not for everyone, and it is my belief that published adventures are better off without them. Arguably the first encounter, A Timely Rescue, serves as introduction, but its a bit boring, so no need. Instead let the PC's experience the aftermath of the cult of Bane's destruction as they move through the countryside.I would also either drop the Skill Challenges completely, or rework them from the ground and up. We have learned a lot since June 2008 when it comes to SC's, and they can definitely be better. Or you could do what we always done, roleplay the whole thing and maybe toss in a few checks here and there.Continuing, I would definitely skip the Hunter and Hunted encounter, again, it serves little purpose.Arriving to Adakmi, which is an interesting little village, I would expand on Glasur, the dwarven riverboat captain and his pike-driven boat, the Blacksnake, just to make the encounter with him a little more than just a: Hi, need a boat? Sure, I hate the cult too, so it won't be expensive!" thing that the original adventure has going.You should keep Fire on the Water, to bring the doings of the cult more front and center of the adventure, and it's not a bad encounter either.You should also keep Friend of My Friend - it advances the story. But you might need to tweak the solo, as it is way too weak as it is atm. Also, you should give anyone awake a perception check - after all, while he is invisible, he still makes sounds.At this point, you have 3 encounters before getting to the main part.Consider ways to get through secret arcane locked doors if no rogue present. Perhaps some arcane skill challenge to disable the magic.There is a fairly big skill challenge that the PC's need to go through in order to acquire information about the fate of the paladin, but that can easily be achieved with good old roleplaying, but you will need to create and flesh out a lot of routines and NPC's. I would probably do it even if you should choose to run the SC as it is.Inside the temple, keep the two encounters which are really traps, to support the idea of an ancient protected temple, and of course the final battle with the demon and/or the paladin. IMO you are better off ditching the Last Stand Encounter. [/sblock][sblock=Example - The Sleeper in the Tomb of Dreams]A century after a battle between two armies and their evil generals, an evil cult is trying to bring back one of the evil generals, and if not stopped, the Far Realms creatures that follow that general.Sleeper in teh Tomb of Dreams has several things going for it. First of all, I like the setup, but it also has a couple of interesting hooks, some nice maps and one of my Top10 favorite traps. But IMO, it suffers from too many combat encounters, especially because there is no natural break or place to take a break and get an extended rest. 9 encounters with nothing but short rests might be a tad much for most groups.If you want to run it as is, you could "rule" that Volkanth and his posse of foulspawns are locked in the ritual/ceremony for days, so no one wanders off. This would mean that the chance of players being disturbed while taking an extend rest to be slim. Personally I would cut quite a few encounters and instead perhaps insert a time limit into the adventure.To begin with, I would remove Brigands. The fact that Volkanth has to be able for steal the bones of the evil paladin in order for the adventure to work reeks of railroading. Therefore, in order to avoid this, I would instead start the adventure with the PC's being a bit further away, hearing the screams when the Raven Queen worshipers are attacked. So that when thePC's arrive, they find that Volkanth and his minions are gone, with a nice set of tracks made by the minions - which they can follow once they have been given the quest by Sister Naenia.This means that Warwood Creek will be the first encounter. Although I would make a few changes to fit better. The whole notion of the chillborn zombies just happening to be asleep at the exact spot where the encounter happens is a tad far fetched, so instead, make the encounter consist of Tiefling Heretics (you could even reflavor their powers to be a bit more necromantic) and chillborn zombies. The zombies would still be hiding under the ice, waiting for the tieflings to attack.Remove Battle of Stargazer Hill. It's more of the same, while providing nothing new.Keep Guardians of the Descent. It's an interesting encounter/trap.Keep The Hanged Ones. This is just an awesome trap. But if you want to be even more evil, change the minions of the encounter to ghost minions who attack while the trap is still working.Also keep Seer sees the truth. Not only does it advance the plot, but it has that Far Realm flavor, as opposed to certain other encounters.Remove On A Razor's Edge. It doesn't advance the plot, and while the monsters are thematically sorta in tune with the adventure, I still think it falls short.Remove Wrecking Eye, as it is yet another filler.Keep The Sleeper's Tomb, of course.That gives you a nice adventure, 5 cool encounters (2 of them involving a trap) which should be doable without having to take an extended rest. As mentioned earlier, you could add a time limit to the whole thing. Maybe some of the inscriptions in F1/S1 could indicate that the ceremony needed to take place on this day, so that the players know that the ceremony is already on the way and probably will end soon.[/sblock]Thanks for doing this.Cheers</blockquote>

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