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<blockquote data-quote="gabrion" data-source="post: 2406100" data-attributes="member: 30779"><p>Wow, lots of responses and I really appreciate the ideas everyone. As for how we arrived at this particular juncture, I should have given a few more details to begin with, since I think it could ahve cleared some things up.</p><p></p><p><strong>Knowledge of the Shadow</strong></p><p>It wasn't exactly that the character was just flipping throught the MM (I did say that though..hmm), but instead that he was specifically looking at the Shadow. Why? Because he just gained his third level in Shadowdancer and wanted to read about his knew buddy. The shadow under his control doesn't have the ability to create spawn, but he did see that and ask about it. </p><p></p><p>Although I could have used Knowledge (religion) as some people pointed out, my game actually contains a skill called Knowledge (monsters), which allows you to learn things about a monster based on how well you do on the check. He is one of the players who invested in the skill and therefore he has the opportunity to make a check, which should probably have an ad hoc bonus if anything since he has a shadow "familiar."</p><p></p><p><strong>Access to scrolls</strong></p><p>Very high magic world. This has obviouly caused some minor problems before, but usually nothing I can't handle. Characters interact with magic every day, and currently the characters are staying in the largest city on the continent, making access to these kinds of things quite easy. Since the character doesn't have Knowledge (arcana) or Spellcraft, he wouldn't know much about spells, but I could make him roleplay asking someone about it. The party wizard may be able to help, or if he chooses to try the black market (a dangerous endeavor), he can tell people what he is looking for and they may very well give it to him. </p><p></p><p>Now that I think about it, this may be my best tool. If he has to roleplay obtaining the scroll it will undoubtedly leave a trail, which will give me a non-metagame reason for having certain NPCs track him after he carries out the plan. </p><p></p><p><strong>Rule 0ing/Changing Monsters</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Call me a crazy DM, but I'm pretty sure the answer to that question is yes. I'm pretty sure they eliminated most Rule 0 references in 3.5. </p><p></p><p>Really it doesn't matter for this case though. If the character uses the Shapechange spell to turn into something, then they do have the right to know if I've modified the creature, right? Sure if they run into a mummy and I've made him fire resistent, that's fine, but the description of Shapechange makes me think that the character would be aware of what they are turningn into. For those of you proposing a switcheroo, that's like having the 20th level wizard turn into a dragon for combat purposes via shapechange and then telling him, "Oh ya, dragons are really weak in my world. They don't have a breath weapon and if they get hit by any projectiles they die. Noticing that you've turned into a dragon, the enemy archer turns his attention to you..." Not cool IMO.</p><p></p><p>----------------------------------------</p><p></p><p>I apologize for not having given more details about the character being a shadowdancer and having a way to access knowledge about creatures, but I was just more interested in the legality of the act and the consequences should it take place. Right now I can't see a fair way of preventing it shot of DM tyranny, of which I'm not a big fan, so I believe I will allow him to proceed. I will require that all of his plan be carried out in game, and I will have an out of character dicussion detailing the possible ramifications of such a course of action, but if he makes the rolls I won't keep him from doing it. I will also point out to him that the DMG does talk about the relative challenge of encounters and that if the Shadoes make everything easy, the group will get lower XP rewards (something he will need to really think about). That said, I think this will be a very interesting situation and it will have a major impact on the game world. If I keep on my toes though it should be a fun character developement eexperience.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="gabrion, post: 2406100, member: 30779"] Wow, lots of responses and I really appreciate the ideas everyone. As for how we arrived at this particular juncture, I should have given a few more details to begin with, since I think it could ahve cleared some things up. [B]Knowledge of the Shadow[/B] It wasn't exactly that the character was just flipping throught the MM (I did say that though..hmm), but instead that he was specifically looking at the Shadow. Why? Because he just gained his third level in Shadowdancer and wanted to read about his knew buddy. The shadow under his control doesn't have the ability to create spawn, but he did see that and ask about it. Although I could have used Knowledge (religion) as some people pointed out, my game actually contains a skill called Knowledge (monsters), which allows you to learn things about a monster based on how well you do on the check. He is one of the players who invested in the skill and therefore he has the opportunity to make a check, which should probably have an ad hoc bonus if anything since he has a shadow "familiar." [B]Access to scrolls[/B] Very high magic world. This has obviouly caused some minor problems before, but usually nothing I can't handle. Characters interact with magic every day, and currently the characters are staying in the largest city on the continent, making access to these kinds of things quite easy. Since the character doesn't have Knowledge (arcana) or Spellcraft, he wouldn't know much about spells, but I could make him roleplay asking someone about it. The party wizard may be able to help, or if he chooses to try the black market (a dangerous endeavor), he can tell people what he is looking for and they may very well give it to him. Now that I think about it, this may be my best tool. If he has to roleplay obtaining the scroll it will undoubtedly leave a trail, which will give me a non-metagame reason for having certain NPCs track him after he carries out the plan. [B]Rule 0ing/Changing Monsters[/B] Call me a crazy DM, but I'm pretty sure the answer to that question is yes. I'm pretty sure they eliminated most Rule 0 references in 3.5. Really it doesn't matter for this case though. If the character uses the Shapechange spell to turn into something, then they do have the right to know if I've modified the creature, right? Sure if they run into a mummy and I've made him fire resistent, that's fine, but the description of Shapechange makes me think that the character would be aware of what they are turningn into. For those of you proposing a switcheroo, that's like having the 20th level wizard turn into a dragon for combat purposes via shapechange and then telling him, "Oh ya, dragons are really weak in my world. They don't have a breath weapon and if they get hit by any projectiles they die. Noticing that you've turned into a dragon, the enemy archer turns his attention to you..." Not cool IMO. ---------------------------------------- I apologize for not having given more details about the character being a shadowdancer and having a way to access knowledge about creatures, but I was just more interested in the legality of the act and the consequences should it take place. Right now I can't see a fair way of preventing it shot of DM tyranny, of which I'm not a big fan, so I believe I will allow him to proceed. I will require that all of his plan be carried out in game, and I will have an out of character dicussion detailing the possible ramifications of such a course of action, but if he makes the rolls I won't keep him from doing it. I will also point out to him that the DMG does talk about the relative challenge of encounters and that if the Shadoes make everything easy, the group will get lower XP rewards (something he will need to really think about). That said, I think this will be a very interesting situation and it will have a major impact on the game world. If I keep on my toes though it should be a fun character developement eexperience. [/QUOTE]
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