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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hardhead" data-source="post: 1443362" data-attributes="member: 2844">KM, I think by this statement, I can tell you've never run a game for a group like this before.  As I mentioned in my other post, upping the CR to challenge them works, but then you're giving them tons and tons of XP compared to what a group figting a "normal" CR does.  And you generally *don't* have a high risk of death, because the group is higher powered than a normal group of their level.  Plus, as they gain more levels (in a faster fashion than normal,) they tend to get exponetnially more powerful.  A min/maxed 4th level character might be the power equivalent of a "normal" 5th level character, but with so many more options to optimize, a 12th level character can be the eqivalent of a normal 16th level one.  What are you going to do to a group of those guys, put them up against CR 16 critters, just to challenge them?  That gives them even *more* XP, and soon you've got a power curve that's exponential.  Higher CRs = More Levels = More Power = Higher CRs.  It's a vicious cycle that can bore players and cause hours of work for DMs.  Fixing the problem with higher CRs is the worst thing you can do to "fix" it.  It's like trying to put out a fire by throwing gasoline on it."Mostly because they are considered the "best" class (understandibly). With the proper combination of buffs, these clerics easily surpass the party fighters and barbarians in damage delt.""I have no problem with people who play clerics because they like the concept, but this party has a lot of clerics who play them because they like the munchkiness of them.... I view muchkining as the maximizing of ones character via the use of rules loop holes, oversights, and imbalances.""The core problem is that the players have come to the conclusion that there are more exploits for clerics than with any other class. Thus, I made this topic."Sounds like he's finding them too powerful in combat to me, and the simplest way to fix it is by nerfing the cleric.  He can do that easily without cheating any current cleric players by doing it between campaigns.  Anything else is a patch fix.</blockquote>

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