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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Qualir" data-source="post: 1443583" data-attributes="member: 17391">Having read all the posts to date, as well as previously posting myself, I have to agree with some of the statements made. 1. Nerfing a class is not "the best" route to take. Such an action is likely to cause friction between the players and DM. Please note that minor changes to a class, such as the above mentioned "prayer book" is not necessarily nerfing, but massive reconstruction of and the deletion of certain core class abilities is so.2. Adding abilities to other existing core classes is a dangerous & slippery slope. As DMs, we all inevitably worry about things like "game balance." Altering existing classes by adding to them without an appropriate amount of give-and-take can easily lead to unexpected balance issues.3. A party of all/mostly clerics is challenging to DM. This is actually true of any party made predominantly/wholly of 1 PC class. D&D was designed with diverse parties of characters in mind and balanced accordingly. This is one reason behind players often feeling that certain classes are necessary to create an effective party.4. Upping the CR of opponents to correlate with perceived party power encourages min/maxing and munchkinism. Players naturally take their cue from the DM as in creating/leveling PCs. Power playing by the DM will thus naturally lead the players to follow suit. 5. RP challenges have little to no effect on combat challenges. The two are seperate entities that seldom overlap. This is not to say that RP can not effect combat, but it can not be expected to do so on a contiuos basis.6. PCs should not expect to be able to hire competant and honorable NPCs to fill holes left after party creation. I strongly encourage you, the DM, to discourage this thought. Few parties are willing to trust fellow PC rogues, so why should they trust an "Unknown."7. One trick DMing is boring.My own suggested possibilities.1. Use an alternate method of awarding XP and treasure to the party. I award XP on a 1 level (or less) per adventure basis in order to keep my players at a desirable power level. I never award XP during play until the adventure is completed. 2. I select the party treasure based on party weaknesses and strengths rather than handing out random treasure. A party that is totally capable of self buffing and modifying weapons to bypass DR does not need items that do so for them. Do not award treasure that takes the place of "missing classes." You might be able to encourage additional classes/multiclassing by awarding treasure that benefits other classes much more than clerics without replacing the class altogether. 3. Anything outside the PH, DMG, and MM is totally optional (as is much of the material provided in these books). You do not have to allow PCs access to optional rules that increase their abilty to min/max. I suggest not allowing divine feats and optional domains from DotF and CW. I would also limit the # and type of PrC available for each class. Removing these options might discourage PCs used to a free reign of options meant to empower the class you wish to discourage.4. Do not play to the party strengths. Reduce the # of undead encounters. Feel free to hit them with big damage encounters (they have plenty of healing power). Do not give divine spell wands as treasure. 5. Hit them where it hurts. Clerical power is dependent upon the deity's favor. Place the party in situations that can result in loss of this favor if they are not careful. Paladins are not the only class that has the potential to fall from grace.6. Place the party in the Dragonlance setting between to the events in the War of the Lance and the Catyclism. The gods refused to acknowledge clerics during this time, making the class a depowered fighter. Unlike simply nerfing the class on your world, this allows the party to explore a setting they might have read about which has plenty of history. Players will often go along with things they dislike when there is a printed rational behind it, especially if they are rules lawyers.7. Make someone else DM. Player experience behind the screne often grants sympathy for the challenges DMs face.</blockquote>

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