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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 9356555" data-attributes="member: 93670">All of the questions through my posts in this thread have been asked genuinely hoping for answers rather than with a goal of knifing neotrad.Then what purpose is served by  describing the collaborative activity of one person working with a second to some end as a one sided thing?  Fiasco is a game where the goal is to make things go sideways in catastrophic falure as a group... If neotrad is a straight up Mary Sue style inversion if Fiasco why not be clear and own it with a spotlight like meat grinder funnels do wrt pc longevity?  If it's something else, like Helena notes below, why is neotrad so quick to bring out knives like the last paragraph in <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/help-me-understand-find-the-fun-in-oc-neo-trad-play.704416/post-9356186" target="_blank">31</a> when that gets questioned in search of a clarifying answer?Aren't you just describing story games here? What differences in the overlapping and non-overlapoing sections of a Venn diagram of story games placed beside one of neotrad clearly mark out how these two are different at a glance?That bold bit is especially applicable with story games to the point that I think fate core even has sections talking about that kinda stuff in various ways. can you (or anyone) clear up what part of the neotrad writeup in the six cultures blog post or some other article/blog post we could poutat with more focus than a bunch of contradictory forum posts about neotrad covering this kinda stuff?The last few pages of somewhat conflicting posts with personal definitions for neotrad and everything about it as a whole show why I'm asking. There are lots of ttrpg terms lacking a solid agreement over specific definition, power gamer and munchkin for example, but if two people made a Venn diagram for what each of those represents a third person could usually agree that both powergamer<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />owergamer and munchkin:munchkin diagrams have significant enough overlap for that third person to agree the two were about the same general thing despite differences.  How can a "play culture" that depends on personal & working definitions  for everything about it right down to basic english like "work[ing] with"not even mention that</blockquote>

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