Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Not a Decepticon" data-source="post: 9360403" data-attributes="member: 7020527">Except that &quot;story first&quot; is not one of the categories in the 6 philosophies. You literally just pull out a new category out of your butt the moment the argument doesn't go your way, that's an equivalent of picking the goalpost and putting it on a plane to Ohio. This is a cowardly, childish way of arguing and it betrays you jsut want to reduce &quot;neotrad&quot; to a strawman of whatever style of play you dislike.Second point - if we try to map the &quot;story first&quot; to the 6 philosophies, it would be assigned to trad. And neither PbtA nor FotD are trad because trad cares for the GM's story at the expense of player agency, while these games put player agency first and foremost. They are &quot;story first&quot; in that they put story over mechanics. But they're not putting the story over the character, the story IS character-driven. This once again drives home that the definition we are working with is bad. It was made to whine and complain and it disrespects a wide variety of games solely to bash 5th edition (and third, that doesn't even fit the author's own definition) and every time people realize that this stealth insult applies to something they do like, they need to move the goalpost to remove it.As a matter of fact, combined with arbitrary divide between classic and OSR, that a lot of times boils down to distinction without the difference, it makes me question validity of ssix philosophies as a whole. Maybe someone should rework it from a tool to bash games you don't like, into something actually useful.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Not a Decepticon, post: 9360403, member: 7020527"] Except that "story first" is not one of the categories in the 6 philosophies. You literally just pull out a new category out of your butt the moment the argument doesn't go your way, that's an equivalent of picking the goalpost and putting it on a plane to Ohio. This is a cowardly, childish way of arguing and it betrays you jsut want to reduce "neotrad" to a strawman of whatever style of play you dislike. Second point - if we try to map the "story first" to the 6 philosophies, it would be assigned to trad. And neither PbtA nor FotD are trad because trad cares for the GM's story at the expense of player agency, while these games put player agency first and foremost. They are "story first" in that they put story over mechanics. But they're not putting the story over the character, the story IS character-driven. This once again drives home that the definition we are working with is bad. It was made to whine and complain and it disrespects a wide variety of games solely to bash 5th edition (and third, that [I]doesn't even fit [B]the author's own definition[/B][/I]) and every time people realize that this stealth insult applies to something they do like, they need to move the goalpost to remove it. As a matter of fact, combined with arbitrary divide between classic and OSR, that a lot of times boils down to distinction without the difference, it makes me question validity of ssix philosophies as a whole. Maybe someone should rework it from a tool to bash games you don't like, into something actually useful. [/QUOTE]

Verification