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<blockquote data-quote="Dannyalcatraz" data-source="post: 7849434" data-attributes="member: 19675"><p>Umbran, I’m criticizing from the basis of the comic books’ <strong><em>actual storylines.</em></strong></p><p></p><p>In one femtosecond, light travels just 300 nanometers. According to the panels in the Superman comic I linked to in post #97, Superman covers <em>several city blocks</em> in a femtosecond, but he still hasn’t reached the hostage with the gun to her head when the trigger is pulled. When that happens...</p><p></p><p>Quoting the panels:</p><p>“She’s reckless...It catches him off guard...It buys her an attosecond.</p><p></p><p>But it’s not enough to stop the bullet. Fortunately...”</p><p></p><p>NEWS FLASH: He then bursts through the building wall, crosses the room, and stops the bullet he just said would end her life in an attosecond! (FWIW, in a shared conversation, Flash has <em>also</em> mentioned being able to percieve events lasting under an attosecond as well. So I’m pretty sure Supes understands just fine what an attosecond is.)</p><p></p><p>It should also be noted that in previous panels in that sequence, he says he knows what his top speed is...but that he hasn’t traveled like this ”since Pa.” AFAIK, at no point is there an indication that- like the Flash- he has traveled through time.</p><p></p><p>So, even if “trillion mph“ punch is off, according to the writers creating the DC universe, Superman can indeed travel several orders of magnitude faster than light in normal space. Maybe not all day, every day, but occasionally is enough to be problematic.</p><p></p><p>If, in the stated scenario, Batman is indeed badass enough to anticipate that previously perfectly fine Superman with that kind of speed & power is homicidally snapping RIGHT NOW so well that he survives, he has no business being outwitted by The Joker or Bane. Whatever mental blocks reign in his speed (and other powers) to sub-FTL levels probably wouldn’t be operant if Superman went full Ed Gein.</p><p></p><p>I’m pretty sure, brilliant though he is, Batman hasn’t invented any gear that can trigger in under an attosecond.</p><p></p><p>About the only only way Bats could survive would be the intervention of a similarly powerful being- say, Green Lantern- or being tipped off by a time traveler (the Flash?).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>....so he‘s hyper aware of Kryptonian psychology and microexpression? Or his in particular? Do Kryptonians HAVE microexpressions? Hell- do Kryptonians change from sane to insane at humanlike speeds, or are they faster? Or slower?</p><p></p><p>(If we include the disguised Daxamite variant of the scenario I mentioned upthread, Bats may detect that something is off, but if he’s relying on his familiarity with Clark or with Kryptonians in general, his reactions to the attack could doom him.)</p><p></p><p>I am no expert- I’m not even an MD- but I personally witnessed and correctly diagnosed my paternal grandmother having a stroke, missed by the two MDs in the room. It was a miniscule change in expression, a fleeting thing, but I saw it.</p><p></p><p>But I was looking her dead in the face, nobody else was.</p><p></p><p>Even for The World’s Greatest Detective, anticipating Supes‘ trigger flipping would require great fortune indeed.</p><p></p><p>Besides which, “he’s noticing things others missed“ in this case changes the posited scenario. If Kryptonian insanity has tells, what’s the time window between “Supes seems a little off...” to full-on super rampage?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I‘m not positing brawn beats brains 100% either, but I AM saying there are times when Batman can and will be caught flat and unprepared, and will not be able to save himself or the person he’s trying to save. That’s how Bane beat him.</p><p></p><p>In those cases, he’ll need an ally who can either percieve what Bats cannot or who can supply a counterbalancing force he cannot. The ”Supeman snapped” scenario is one such situation.</p><p></p><p>Even a more mundane situation like being in a crashing airliner may take him out, or greatly restrict the number of people he can save, depending on the reasons for the impending disaster.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That’s what writers and GMs are for, not game mechanics hard baked into BP characters.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I didn’t say he was unreadable, but he IS an alien. Just because he looks like us doesn’t mean he has all the same kind of tells as we do. They may count megalomaniacs (Zod), serial killers (Faora) and psychopaths (Rog-Ar) among their number, but that doesn’t mean they’re going to react to a Rorschach test like an insane human.</p><p></p><p>So what Bats knows of humans could conceivably wrongfoot him if/when profiling Kal-El. Some/much/all of his terabyte of data and plans to handle Superman could be founded on flawed hypotheses. (See again the disguised Daxamite*.)</p><p></p><p>For all I know, it might be in DC’s unwritten rules that Kryptonians simply don’t have anything resembling psychotic breaks, for whatever reason. But that we cannot know.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>* I’ve seen “evil Supeman“ type stories printed in Marvel, Dark Horse and other companies’ lines, but the Daxamite swap would be an interesting one for me. Imagine, the Daxamite teams up with Lex Luthor, who thinks his stockpile of kryptonite will keep his hand on “Superman’s“ leash. Which seemingly works fine until the ruse is dropped...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dannyalcatraz, post: 7849434, member: 19675"] Umbran, I’m criticizing from the basis of the comic books’ [B][I]actual storylines.[/I][/B] In one femtosecond, light travels just 300 nanometers. According to the panels in the Superman comic I linked to in post #97, Superman covers [I]several city blocks[/I] in a femtosecond, but he still hasn’t reached the hostage with the gun to her head when the trigger is pulled. When that happens... Quoting the panels: “She’s reckless...It catches him off guard...It buys her an attosecond. But it’s not enough to stop the bullet. Fortunately...” NEWS FLASH: He then bursts through the building wall, crosses the room, and stops the bullet he just said would end her life in an attosecond! (FWIW, in a shared conversation, Flash has [I]also[/I] mentioned being able to percieve events lasting under an attosecond as well. So I’m pretty sure Supes understands just fine what an attosecond is.) It should also be noted that in previous panels in that sequence, he says he knows what his top speed is...but that he hasn’t traveled like this ”since Pa.” AFAIK, at no point is there an indication that- like the Flash- he has traveled through time. So, even if “trillion mph“ punch is off, according to the writers creating the DC universe, Superman can indeed travel several orders of magnitude faster than light in normal space. Maybe not all day, every day, but occasionally is enough to be problematic. If, in the stated scenario, Batman is indeed badass enough to anticipate that previously perfectly fine Superman with that kind of speed & power is homicidally snapping RIGHT NOW so well that he survives, he has no business being outwitted by The Joker or Bane. Whatever mental blocks reign in his speed (and other powers) to sub-FTL levels probably wouldn’t be operant if Superman went full Ed Gein. I’m pretty sure, brilliant though he is, Batman hasn’t invented any gear that can trigger in under an attosecond. About the only only way Bats could survive would be the intervention of a similarly powerful being- say, Green Lantern- or being tipped off by a time traveler (the Flash?). ....so he‘s hyper aware of Kryptonian psychology and microexpression? Or his in particular? Do Kryptonians HAVE microexpressions? Hell- do Kryptonians change from sane to insane at humanlike speeds, or are they faster? Or slower? (If we include the disguised Daxamite variant of the scenario I mentioned upthread, Bats may detect that something is off, but if he’s relying on his familiarity with Clark or with Kryptonians in general, his reactions to the attack could doom him.) I am no expert- I’m not even an MD- but I personally witnessed and correctly diagnosed my paternal grandmother having a stroke, missed by the two MDs in the room. It was a miniscule change in expression, a fleeting thing, but I saw it. But I was looking her dead in the face, nobody else was. Even for The World’s Greatest Detective, anticipating Supes‘ trigger flipping would require great fortune indeed. Besides which, “he’s noticing things others missed“ in this case changes the posited scenario. If Kryptonian insanity has tells, what’s the time window between “Supes seems a little off...” to full-on super rampage? I‘m not positing brawn beats brains 100% either, but I AM saying there are times when Batman can and will be caught flat and unprepared, and will not be able to save himself or the person he’s trying to save. That’s how Bane beat him. In those cases, he’ll need an ally who can either percieve what Bats cannot or who can supply a counterbalancing force he cannot. The ”Supeman snapped” scenario is one such situation. Even a more mundane situation like being in a crashing airliner may take him out, or greatly restrict the number of people he can save, depending on the reasons for the impending disaster. That’s what writers and GMs are for, not game mechanics hard baked into BP characters. I didn’t say he was unreadable, but he IS an alien. Just because he looks like us doesn’t mean he has all the same kind of tells as we do. They may count megalomaniacs (Zod), serial killers (Faora) and psychopaths (Rog-Ar) among their number, but that doesn’t mean they’re going to react to a Rorschach test like an insane human. So what Bats knows of humans could conceivably wrongfoot him if/when profiling Kal-El. Some/much/all of his terabyte of data and plans to handle Superman could be founded on flawed hypotheses. (See again the disguised Daxamite*.) For all I know, it might be in DC’s unwritten rules that Kryptonians simply don’t have anything resembling psychotic breaks, for whatever reason. But that we cannot know. * I’ve seen “evil Supeman“ type stories printed in Marvel, Dark Horse and other companies’ lines, but the Daxamite swap would be an interesting one for me. Imagine, the Daxamite teams up with Lex Luthor, who thinks his stockpile of kryptonite will keep his hand on “Superman’s“ leash. Which seemingly works fine until the ruse is dropped... [/QUOTE]
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