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<blockquote data-quote="Cadfan" data-source="post: 4630418" data-attributes="member: 40961">An 18 charism paladin automatically does 7 damage when an enemy incurs their challenge damage.&nbsp; An 18 strength fighter with a longsword has to roll to deal 1d8+4 damage.&nbsp; Advantage: Paladin.&nbsp;Now, the Fighter can improve that.&nbsp; He can upgrade to a bastard sword, and take weapon focus.&nbsp; Then he can deal 1d10+5.&nbsp; The paladin can't upgrade his damage.&nbsp; But, 10.5+5 averages 10.5 per roll, and unless the Fighter is hitting on about a 7+, the paladin's 7 damage is still better.&nbsp; Magic weapons don't exactly factor into it, since at each tier the paladin's damage amounts adjust to match.&nbsp;Meanwhile, the paladin should have an advantage of 1 point of AC, and he still has two feats.&nbsp;The fighter can pull ahead by wielding a two handed weapon like a maul.&nbsp; A fighter with a mordenkrad (2d6, brutal 1) and weapon focus will average 13 damage per hit.&nbsp; This beats 7 as long as he hits on around a 9, which is plausible.&nbsp; Of course, in the meantime he's now behind by 3 points of AC.&nbsp;Our group has a two handed weapon fighter and a sword and shield charisma based paladin.&nbsp; We've found it mostly a wash between the two.&nbsp; The fighter takes a lot more damage, but generally deals more damage.&nbsp; The paladin takes a lot less damage, but can't do much about opportunity attacks.&nbsp; For a while we thought that the Fighter was unbalanced because of his level 5 power that lets him deal weapon damage to all adjacent enemies (2d6+3, brutal 1, at this point) every round, but then the Paladin got a utility power that lets him add his charisma modifier (+5 at this point) to the damage rolls of everyone in the party if they start the fight near him.&nbsp; Having the whole party operate at +5 damage seems to outstrip dealing 2d6+3, brutal 1, to adjacent foes.&nbsp; Its now our biggest, scariest daily power.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cadfan, post: 4630418, member: 40961"] An 18 charism paladin automatically does 7 damage when an enemy incurs their challenge damage. An 18 strength fighter with a longsword has to roll to deal 1d8+4 damage. Advantage: Paladin. Now, the Fighter can improve that. He can upgrade to a bastard sword, and take weapon focus. Then he can deal 1d10+5. The paladin can't upgrade his damage. But, 10.5+5 averages 10.5 per roll, and unless the Fighter is hitting on about a 7+, the paladin's 7 damage is still better. Magic weapons don't exactly factor into it, since at each tier the paladin's damage amounts adjust to match. Meanwhile, the paladin should have an advantage of 1 point of AC, and he still has two feats. The fighter can pull ahead by wielding a two handed weapon like a maul. A fighter with a mordenkrad (2d6, brutal 1) and weapon focus will average 13 damage per hit. This beats 7 as long as he hits on around a 9, which is plausible. Of course, in the meantime he's now behind by 3 points of AC. Our group has a two handed weapon fighter and a sword and shield charisma based paladin. We've found it mostly a wash between the two. The fighter takes a lot more damage, but generally deals more damage. The paladin takes a lot less damage, but can't do much about opportunity attacks. For a while we thought that the Fighter was unbalanced because of his level 5 power that lets him deal weapon damage to all adjacent enemies (2d6+3, brutal 1, at this point) every round, but then the Paladin got a utility power that lets him add his charisma modifier (+5 at this point) to the damage rolls of everyone in the party if they start the fight near him. Having the whole party operate at +5 damage seems to outstrip dealing 2d6+3, brutal 1, to adjacent foes. Its now our biggest, scariest daily power. [/QUOTE]

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