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Message: <blockquote data-quote="gizmo33" data-source="post: 2226997" data-attributes="member: 30001">I'm in the camp that puts "killing players through assassination" to be at the bottom of my "fun things to do list" That being said, you seem to be in the habit of wanting to preclude ability checks.  I've found it much more diplomatic, and probably in the spirit of the game, to get more in the habit of thinking that nothing is impossible.  Look at the reasoning behind the DC 20 check for spotting invisibility, or look at the Epic level handbook skill section for some ideas on why you might not want to preclude anything. Instead, try modifiers.  Start with a circumstance modifier for noticing something invisible on the ceiling.  Consider that a dungeon ceiling is probably going to be covered in all kinds of mold and loose rock, which would attract attention if knocked loose.  Pick a circumstance modifier.  Maybe -4 to Spot?  (In fact, noticing falling dust particles might provide some suspense and tension - what is on the ceiling?  Then the assassin encounter would start to run the risk of being interesting.) As far as feather falling silently - it's not silent if you have super-human hearing.  Clothes rustle.  Stomachs rumble.  The assassin's elbow could make a clicking noise when he rears back to strike.  If I have a +50 listen I can probably hear the nervous assassin's heart beating.  If you get into the habit of not allowing chances for things, then your players are going to see it as a matter of surival to argue with you over the zillions of possibilities in every situation.  If you just say "ok, all freak occurances can be simulated by giving the feather falling person a +20 on their move silently" then I think that fairly covers the situation.  On the flip side, one wonders if the assassin's move silently training allows him to apply his full bonus towards falling through the air - it's probably much better designed for walking quietly. Also, don't manipulate the situation to punish characters for being specialists.  It's no fun to play the game with a high listen and spot check if the DM is just going to thwart that ability with custom rule calls when it suits him.  Consider the idea that the character has probably under-developed other aspects of his character and try to challenge them in those areas equally.</blockquote>

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