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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scud.NZ" data-source="post: 4381893" data-attributes="member: 73097">I'm having a little trouble getting to grips with the Perception skill.Imagine, if you will, a group of PC's walking along on a nice clear day. Maybe they will spot the ogre (200m away) in the field chewing on the arm...just the arm, mind you, combat's over...the arm of a peasant. The PC's are not actively looking out for danger as they are in civilized lands. Here is how I think I should run the start of this encounter.The PC's are not actively looking out for danger, so I use Passive Perception. Is this right?The Ogre is not actively trying to hide, so rather than use an opposed check I need to find a Perception DC. How do I calculate it?On p.187 PHB I am given (very) little guidance on how to do this. Nothing in the rules that I have seen allows me to take into account either the large distance (about 120 squares) or the large size of the Ogre.I recognize that the reason behind this is that D&D is now effectively a set of tabletop skirmish rules (the combat system is more fun to play as a result, IMO) and hence encounters "normally" happen at 5 - 20 squares, but 4Ed does seem to lack much of the detail present in earlier editions in other areas of the game.As far as this encounter, and the rules as I understand them, goes, I would judge that my ogre is behaving "normally" eating his peasant arm. If I consider Passive Listening I would pick DC10 (normal conversation), and take the +2 modifier for being more than 10 squares away, for a total of 12. The ogre would be heard by over half of my 1st level party. It doesn't appear to matter if the ogre is 11 squares or 110 squares away.It doesn't appear to matter that the ogre is like 8-9 feet tall. It could just as easily be a (small) giant rat gnawing on the arm. No difference in the rules.Granted the Spot Perception DC's are DC10 for Barely Hidden, and DC25 for Well Hidden, so I could choose a DC (based on size), but there is no guidance.What if there were more than one monster? This would make it even easier to hear or spot. How about when the party have reached paragon tier? With ability increases and +5 for their level, they are going to be super-aware of their surroundings.By my reckoning the ogre would automatically spot/hear the PC's as well (Normal Conversation, More than 10 squares away = DC12), with his Perception of +4. It seems kinda stale, both sides automatically seeing the other, no chance of one side getting the drop on the other. Any solution to this?, rather than DM's decree "You see the ogre, but it does not see you."Can anyone please provide some advice about how I could take distance and creature size into account, and give the party a chance to get the drop on the ogre? The reason I need this is that I want to set up a patrol-type adventure, where some of the encounters can be random, and sometimes one side sees the other first. Thanks in advance for any help given.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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