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<blockquote data-quote="Scud.NZ" data-source="post: 4383263" data-attributes="member: 73097">This is partly what's bugging me. In previous editions things have seemed clearer.The issue of a &quot;fair&quot; DC is also a problem. If I check against Passive Perception, the PC's have no role to play. It's as simple as if their PP is less than the DC I decide upon they don't see it. Effectively the DM gets to decide. Now, I'll grant you that kind of thing has its place, to move a specific story line along (perhaps the peasant had an important message in his pocket), but I, like many others, like the occasional &quot;random monster&quot;. It gives the PC's another choice to make (Hide, Fight, Run Away) and I think that is a good thing.&quot;+2 for each ten squares&quot;? Possibly, but I haven't seen any hint of that being confirmed anywhere. I shall have to trawl the threads. Plus 10 squares is only 50ft...hmmmLarry:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;I would just have the PCs all roll a Perception check, take the highest result as being the level of awareness of the party&quot;.I'm really tempted to use this. Even Rogues and Rangers can have off-days.Turning it into a rolled check, say at the start of the day or watch, involves the players and gives them a chance against what is otherwise a DM decided outcome. I like it.&quot;This puts the PCs in control either way.&quot; This is exactly what I want. Which incidentally brings me on to a question about weapon proficiency if anyone can answer it. Weapon Proficiency now offers a bonus, rather than a penalty for using a weapon you do not have proficiency in. Is that right? Could, in the situation Larry has described, my PC's all carry a bow on them (Wizard too), get to long bow range, and pepper the ogre with arrow? Granted the non-proficient are less likely to hit, but the difference is only the +2 weapon proficiency and perhaps a couple of points of DEX bonus. They could get lucky [And the Wizard can't use magic missile till range 20 anyhow].&quot;In either case, you solved the problem of who has the advantage, and then you change the situation to one of Perception vs. Stealth of the hiding side, which the rules should let you handle from there.&quot;Yup! That's exactly what I wanted. Thanks, both of you!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Scud.NZ, post: 4383263, member: 73097"] This is partly what's bugging me. In previous editions things have seemed clearer. The issue of a "fair" DC is also a problem. If I check against Passive Perception, the PC's have no role to play. It's as simple as if their PP is less than the DC I decide upon they don't see it. Effectively the DM gets to decide. Now, I'll grant you that kind of thing has its place, to move a specific story line along (perhaps the peasant had an important message in his pocket), but I, like many others, like the occasional "random monster". It gives the PC's another choice to make (Hide, Fight, Run Away) and I think that is a good thing. "+2 for each ten squares"? Possibly, but I haven't seen any hint of that being confirmed anywhere. I shall have to trawl the threads. Plus 10 squares is only 50ft...hmmm Larry: "I would just have the PCs all roll a Perception check, take the highest result as being the level of awareness of the party". I'm really tempted to use this. Even Rogues and Rangers can have off-days. Turning it into a rolled check, say at the start of the day or watch, involves the players and gives them a chance against what is otherwise a DM decided outcome. I like it. "This puts the PCs in control either way." This is exactly what I want. Which incidentally brings me on to a question about weapon proficiency if anyone can answer it. Weapon Proficiency now offers a bonus, rather than a penalty for using a weapon you do not have proficiency in. Is that right? Could, in the situation Larry has described, my PC's all carry a bow on them (Wizard too), get to long bow range, and pepper the ogre with arrow? Granted the non-proficient are less likely to hit, but the difference is only the +2 weapon proficiency and perhaps a couple of points of DEX bonus. They could get lucky [And the Wizard can't use magic missile till range 20 anyhow]. "In either case, you solved the problem of who has the advantage, and then you change the situation to one of Perception vs. Stealth of the hiding side, which the rules should let you handle from there." Yup! That's exactly what I wanted. Thanks, both of you! [/QUOTE]

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