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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ghabrel" data-source="post: 6910130" data-attributes="member: 6805138">So I think the only thing condensing abilities really did was make the sheer ridiculousness of these monsters readily apparent. I mean, just read Fade into Black, "The creature gets x, y, z, 0, q, a barbecue sandwich, an amount of gold sufficient to crush a dwarf into paste, and protection from everything."Oh...Is that all?Yeah...At this point, it's pretty much help me get the Skinchanger's effective CR down to 3 and the Skinwalker's down to 5 (that's what they're both stated as, but the realities of them have them performing at much higher CRs). Any help or advice to that end would be greatly appreciated.Here are the stat blocks as they currently stand:Labyrinth SkinchangerSmall Humanoid Monstrosity (Shapechanger)       CR 3 (700 XP)AC 15      HP 117 (18d6 + 36)                 Spd. 50’-----Attributes-----Str 11 (+0)              Dex 20 (+5)             Con 12 (+1)Int 13 (+1)               Wis 14 (+2)             Cha 16 (+3)-----Abilities-----Skills Acrobatics +7, Athletics +2, Deception +5, Insight +4, Perception +4, Sleight of Hand +7, Stealth +7Condition Immunities charmedSenses darkvision 60 ft., passive Perception 14Languages Common, VecnaxjiArmor NoneProficiency +2-----Special Abilities-----Avoidance The skinchanger takes no damage from effects that allow a saving throw if it succeeds, and half damage if it fails.Change Shape The skinchanger magically polymorphs into a humanoid or beast that is medium or smaller, even a specific one if it has been seen before, or back into its true form. The skinchanger adopts the attributes, characteristics, and actions of the target it polymorphed into, although it retains this power as well as the Charm, Read Thoughts, and Weird Insight abilities. It reverts to its true form if it dies.Charm (1/Day) The skinchanger targets one humanoid it can see within 30 feet of it. If the target can see it, the target must succeed on a DC 13 Wisdom saving throw against this magic or be charmed by the skinchanger. The charmed target regards the skinchanger as a trusted friend to be heeded and protected. Although the target isn’t under the skinchanger’s control, it takes its requests or actions in the most favorable way it can, and it is a willing target for its bite attack. Each time the skinchanger or one of its companions do anything harmful to the target, it can repeat the saving throw, ending the effect on itself on a success. Otherwise, the effect lasts 24 hours or until the skinchanger is destroyed, is on a different plane of existence than the target, or takes a bonus action to end the effect.Cling to Surface The skinchanger can climb on any surface, even vertical or inverted ones, and it has advantage on rolls to resist being knocked off or knocked prone.Entangler The skinchanger has advantage on attack rolls to grapple, attack rolls against targets it has grappled, and saves and ability checks to escape from grapples.Fade into Black The skinchanger has advantage of Dexterity (Stealth) checks, may use the Disengage or Hide actions as a bonus action on its turn, may attempt to hide if only obscured by a creature one or more sizes larger than it, and may attempt to hide as a reaction if in dim light or darkness.Flow from Shadow The skinchanger has advantage on attack rolls against targets it has surprised, and any hits it scores this way are critical hits that deal an extra 10 (3d6) damage.Leap If the skinchanger jumps at least 20 feet as part of its movement, it can then use this action to land in a space occupied by an enemy and immediately resolve a kick attack against it, automatically knocking the target prone and pushing it 5 feet if the attack hits, or falling prone in a free adjacent space if it misses. If the attack hits and there is at least one additional enemy within 5 feet, the shapechanger may make a tail sweep attack as a bonus action.Mimicry The skinchanger can mimic animal sounds and humanoid voices. A creature that hears the sounds can tell they are imitations with a successful DC 14 Wisdom (Insight) check.Pack Tactics The skinchanger has advantage on an attack roll against a creature if at least one of its allies is within 5 feet of it and the ally isn’t incapacitated.Reactive The skinchanger can take one reaction on every turn in a combat.-----Actions-----Multiattack: The skinchanger makes a bite and a claw attack.Bite (Melee): +6, 5’, one target.Hit: 10 (4d4) piercing damage.Claw (Melee): +6, 5’, one target.Hit: 9 (2d8) slashing damage.Kick (Melee): +6, 5’, one target.Hit: 14 (4d6) bludgeoning damage, and the target must pass a DC 15 Strength or Dexterity saving throw (target’s choice) or be knocked prone and pushed back 5 feet.Read Thoughts: The skinchanger magically reads the surface thoughts of one creature within 60 feet of it. The effect can penetrate barriers, but 3 feet of wood or dirt, 2 feet of stone, 2 inches of metal, or a thin sheet of lead blocks it. While the target is in range the skinchanger can continue reading its thoughts, as long as the doppelganger's concentration isn't broken (as if concentrating on a spell). While reading the target's mind, the skinchanger has advantage on Wisdom (Insight) and Charisma (Deception, Intimidation, and Persuasion) checks against the target.Tail Sweep (Melee): +6, 5’, one or two targets.Hit: 5 (2d4) bludgeoning damage, and the target(s) must pass a DC 13 Strength or Dexterity saving throw (target’s choice) or be knocked prone.Weird Insight: The skinchanger targets one creature it can see within 30 feet of it. The target must contest its Charisma (Deception) check against the skinchanger's Wisdom (Insight) check. If the skinchanger wins, it magically learns one fact or secret about the target. The target automatically wins if it is immune to being charmed.-----Creation Details-----CR           Prof.        AC           HP           Att. B      D/R          Sv. DC3              2        13(24)     117          +10          45-50       13Adjusted                 >30          4         17-20       7-----Abilities increase effective AC beyond all reason, effective Attack Bonus by over a dozen CR, and effective damage per round by 3 CR Labyrinth SkinwalkerMedium Humanoid Monstrosity (Shapechanger)    CR 5 (1,800 XP)AC 13      HP 159 (18d8 + 42)                 Spd. 40’-----Attributes-----Str 15 (+2)              Dex 17 (+3)             Con 14 (+2)Int 15 (+2)               Wis 16 (+3)             Cha 18 (+4)-----Abilities-----Skills Athletics +5, Deception +7, Insight +6, Perception +6, Sleight of Hand +6, Stealth +6Condition Immunities charmedSenses darkvision 60 ft., passive Perception 16Languages Common, VecnaxjiArmor NoneProficiency +3-----Special Abilities-----Change Shape The skinwalker magically polymorphs into a humanoid that is medium or smaller, even a specific one if it has been seen before, or back into its true form. The skinwalker adopts the attributes, characteristics, and actions of the target it polymorphed into, although it retains this power as well as the Charm, Devour Intellect, Read Thoughts, and Weird Insight abilities. It reverts to its true form if it dies.Charm (1/Hr) The skinwalker targets one humanoid it can see within 30 feet of it. If the target can see it, the target must succeed on a DC 15 Wisdom saving throw against this magic or be charmed by the skinwalker. The charmed target regards the skinwalker as a trusted friend to be heeded and protected. Although the target isn’t under the skinwalker’s control, it takes its requests or actions in the most favorable way it can, and it is a willing target for its bite attack. Each time the skinwalker or one of its companions do anything harmful to the target, it can repeat the saving throw, ending the effect on itself on a success. Otherwise, the effect lasts 24 hours or until the skinwalker is destroyed, is on a different plane of existence than the target, or takes a bonus action to end the effect.Devour Intellect The skinwalker targets one charmed and subdued creature it can see within 5 feet of it that has a brain. The target must succeed on a DC 16 Intelligence saving throw against this magic or take 11 (2d10) psychic damage. Also on a failure, roll 3d6: If the total equals or exceeds the target's Intelligence score, that score is reduced to 0. The target is stunned until it regains at least one point of Intelligence.Entangler The skinwalker has advantage on attack rolls to grapple, attack rolls against targets it has grappled, and saves and ability checks to escape from grapples.Fade into Black The skinwalker has advantage of Dexterity (Stealth) checks, may use the Disengage or Hide actions as a bonus action on its turn, may attempt to hide if only obscured by a creature one or more sizes larger than it, and may attempt to hide as a reaction if in dim light or darkness.Flow from Shadow The skinwalker has advantage on attack rolls against targets it has surprised, and any hits it scores this way are critical hits that deal an extra 14 (4d6) damage.Mimicry The skinwalker can mimic animal sounds and humanoid voices. A creature that hears the sounds can tell they are imitations with a successful DC 16 Wisdom (Insight) check.Pack Tactics The skinwalker has advantage on an attack roll against a creature if at least one of its allies is within 5 feet of it and the ally isn’t incapacitated.Pounce If the skinwalker moves at least 20 feet straight toward a creature and then hits it with a claw attack on the same turn, that target must succeed on a DC 16 Strength or Dexterity saving throw (target’s choice) or be knocked prone. If the target is prone, the skinwalker can make one attack of any type against it as a bonus action.Reactive The skinwalker can take one reaction on every turn in a combat.-----Actions-----Multiattack: The skinwalker makes two claw attacks.Claw (Melee): +9, 5’, one target.Hit: 20 (4d8 + 2) slashing damage.Read Thoughts: The skinwalker magically reads the surface thoughts of one creature within 60 feet of it. The effect can penetrate barriers, but 3 feet of wood or dirt, 2 feet of stone, 2 inches of metal, or a thin sheet of lead blocks it. While the target is in range the skinwalker can continue reading its thoughts, as long as the doppelganger's concentration isn't broken (as if concentrating on a spell). While reading the target's mind, the skinwalker has advantage on Wisdom (Insight) and Charisma (Deception, Intimidation, and Persuasion) checks against the target. Slam (Melee): +9, 5’, one target.Hit: 21 (3d12 + 2) bludgeoning damage.Weird Insight The skinwalker targets one creature it can see within 30 feet of it. The target must contest its Charisma (Deception) check against the skinwalker's Wisdom (Insight) check. If the skinwalker wins, it magically learns one fact or secret about the target. The target automatically wins if it is immune to being charmed.-----Creation Details-----CR           Prof.        AC           HP           Att. B      D/R          Sv. DC5              3              15(18)     159          +12          54-59       15Adjusted                 13-16       6              24-26       8-9           -----Abilities increase effective AC by up to 11 CR, effective Attack Bonus by up to 21 CR, and effective damage per round nearly doubles CR Labyrinth SkinflayerLarge Humanoid Monstrosity (Shapechanger)       CR 11 (7,200 XP)AC 13      HP 218 (20d10 + 68)                               Spd. 30’-----Attributes-----Str 19 (+4)              Dex 17 (+3)             Con 14 (+2)Int 16 (+3)               Wis 18 (+4)             Cha 20 (+5)-----Abilities-----Skills Athletics +8, Deception +9, Insight +8, Perception +8, Stealth +7Condition Immunities charmedSenses darkvision 60 ft., passive Perception 18Languages Common, VecnaxjiArmor NoneProficiency +4-----Special Abilities-----Change Shape The skinflayer magically polymorphs into a humanoid that is large or smaller, even a specific one if it has been seen before, or back into its true form. The skinflayer adopts the attributes, characteristics, and actions of the target it polymorphed into, although it retains this power as well as the Charm, Devour Intellect, Psychic Drain, Read Thoughts, and Weird Insight abilities. It reverts to its true form if it dies.Charm (1/Rd) The skinflayer targets one humanoid it can see within 30 feet of it. If the target can see it, the target must succeed on a DC 18 Wisdom saving throw against this magic or be charmed by the skinflayer. The charmed target regards the skinflayer as a trusted friend to be heeded and protected. Although the target isn’t under the skinflayer’s control, it takes its requests or actions in the most favorable way it can, and it is a willing target for its bite attack. Each time the skinflayer or one of its companions do anything harmful to the target, it can repeat the saving throw, ending the effect on itself on a success. Otherwise, the effect lasts 24 hours or until the skinflayer is destroyed, is on a different plane of existence than the target, or takes a bonus action to end the effect.Devour Intellect The skinflayer targets one charmed and subdued creature it can see within 5 feet of it that has a brain. The target must succeed on a DC 19 Intelligence saving throw against this magic or take 11 (2d10) psychic damage. Also on a failure, roll 3d6: If the total equals or exceeds the target's Intelligence score, that score is reduced to 0. The target is stunned until it regains at least one point of Intelligence.Entangler The skinflayer has advantage on attack rolls to grapple, attack rolls against targets it has grappled, and saves and ability checks to escape from grapples.Fade into Black The skinflayer has advantage of Dexterity (Stealth) checks and may attempt to hide as a reaction if in dim light or darkness.Mimicry The skinflayer can mimic animal sounds and humanoid voices. A creature that hears the sounds can tell they are imitations with a successful DC 18 Wisdom (Insight) check.Psychic Drain One creature charmed, subdued, and stunned with Devour Intellect by the skinflayer takes 22 (4d10) psychic damage, and the skinflayer regains hit points equal to the damage the creature takes.-----Actions-----Multiattack: The skinflayer makes two claw attacks.Claw (Melee): +12, 10’, one target.Hit: 31 (6d8 + 4) slashing damage, and the target must pass a DC 17 Strength or Dexterity saving throw (target’s choice) or be knocked prone.Devour (Melee): +12, 5’, one subdued or grappled target.Hit: 37 (5d12 + 4) necrotic damage, and the skinflayer gains that many hit points.Read Thoughts: The skinflayer magically reads the surface thoughts of one creature within 60 feet of it. The effect can penetrate barriers, but 3 feet of wood or dirt, 2 feet of stone, 2 inches of metal, or a thin sheet of lead blocks it. While the target is in range the skinflayer can continue reading its thoughts, as long as the doppelganger's concentration isn't broken (as if concentrating on a spell). While reading the target's mind, the skinflayer has advantage on Wisdom (Insight) and Charisma (Deception, Intimidation, and Persuasion) checks against the target. Weird Insight The skinflayer targets one creature it can see within 30 feet of it. The target must contest its Charisma (Deception) check against the skinflayer's Wisdom (Insight) check. If the skinflayer wins, it magically learns one fact or secret about the target. The target automatically wins if it is immune to being charmed.-----Creation Details-----CR           Prof.        AC           HP           Att. B      D/R          Sv. DC11            4              13(17)     218          +8            69-74       17Adjusted                 Par          10            Par          Par?-----This one actually seems to be right where it needs to be…</blockquote>

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