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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gottohneaffen" data-source="post: 5478803" data-attributes="member: 6671356">I apologize if this is in the wrong section, I couldn't really figure them out but we play 3rd & 4th edition D&D. I am new and made an account just to get help because I've read through enworld's forums and they've helped me so I thought maybe I could get help from asking here with an account. I have some problems and would like to know if you can relate or give some advice.  Please bear with me as this is a lengthy message. I play with a group under 18 and am in high school, there are two DMs both new, me being one and another one whos new to D&D. He's DMed much longer than I but doesn't really do it by the book, I've played D&D for 8 years and have a strong understanding of the rules especially 3rd/3.5 rules and it extremely irritates me when people make up dumb rules or don't even know the rules.  We also have a problem of way too many people wanting to play or players bringing in others without permission like a girlfriend showing up or a random friend who is interested but knows nothing of D&D or a friend of theirs who played D&D but really knows nothing of the rules. We got all these dumb ideas like rolling a d20 for your stats which the other DM said ok to when I was a player and he added not to take a stat below 10.  So we all have have attributes like 20, 20, 18, 17, 16, 12, 15. Then we had a 4th edition game where he disallowed all at-wills and certain class features and allowed rogues to sneak attack with any weapon even greatbows even though the book specifically says they can only sneak attack or use their powers with a weapon from the light blade, hand crossbow or sling group unless their the ruffian thing from the martial power book that lets them a mace I believe.  I told him the rules and showed him in the book, even the exact page and wordings even on other rules as well throughout the session but he didn't listen to me and just kept going, no one else really knew the rules and didn't say anything about it.I asked him about why he prefers 4e and he said because he can make up rules in it and change it, but where in the DMG or anywhere in the history of D&D does it say that?  I guess it's ok to make house-rules if all the group is ok with it and it makes sense or solves a problem but if make up stupid rules or turn the game into something else, it's not really what i love -- D&D. In fact I call it his edition, not 4e or whatever edition we are doing hahah Probably the craziest session I DMed was with twelve players who all had little to no correct comprehension of the rules, we had a 4th level Barbarian who was a friend of our Druid who wanted to join and his Barbarian buddy didn't even know about Charging or how it worked.  There was too many distractions and disruptions and I said we need to drop some people, they didn't want that to happen because it'd drop the "personality" of the group or lessen the "roleplaying" even though they barely knew how to roleplay except for the other DM. I then suggested maybe we could seperate this into at least two alternating groups to keep everyone in and no one wanted to besides myself and wanted to keep everyone. I want to continue D&D but i don't to kick people out because then they'll dislike me, ignore me at school or be rude and not want to be friends with me anymore.  I understand not all people would do this but in high school, most kids here aren't exactly mature. We kicked out a player for being SO disruptive and rude after getting so many warnings at nearly every session, he even kept peeking at the module I was doing while I was DMing so after that game we kept track of all of his strikes, he got 143 strikes in that one session alone and we made a vote and every one of us present agreed to kick him out and we lost a friend who was a friend but terrible at D&D.  I started doing sessions where we don't tell everyone about it just some people and I politely told them to stop bringing their girlfriends. So far this has been ok, have you ever had this problem and have any advice fellow DMs? The other problem: the rules being broken or giving me weird suggestions like making a snare trap with just rope near a door so when someone opens the door they get caught. What skill would that use...? I am sure though the opposing check would be reflex but that's not really a bad idea compared to others. I had a NPC join the party as a guide and he was looking for a PC at night in the camp but the PC said he made a hide check to hide his tent in the bushes and plants and told me his hide check which was above 22 and went to sleep in this tent.  The NPC was going to go into the tent and talk to him but he said he hid his tent. So I had the NPC roll search checks and he didn't find his tent because of the high DC and it's low modifier and wouldn't have been able to even if he toke 20. This was important to the plot and to make the NPC not be cheezy but I just went through with it because I didn't want to deal with arguing and he had to go in a few minues so we couldn't do what I wanted anyway. Should I have allowed that creative suggestion or have disallowed it? I don't want to be a DM who just says NO and ignores the players like the other DM but I feel I should have. Also the PCs kept plotting to kill their guide and wanted to use him as bait for a monster and would laugh about it. Also you would be fatigued sleeping in heavy or medium armor but I found the Barbarian avoided this rule even though I kept reminding hte group. Also the barbarian kept saying he'd take watch and wanted to stay up for like 3 nights straight.  I also had us convert our inflated stats to a pointbuy system so it'd be better but the Barbarian PC was new and jumped in the middle of hte session with high stats. Should I tell him he has to change to point-buy and follow the rules? This is the same barbarian who didn't know anything about charging :x I want the barbarian to either learn or say you're out, I don't know him though and that was the first time I met him. I could come across as a jerk and idk if he'd be mean at school if I ever see him. Ehh I can't find a new group because no one my age knows the rules or even really knows about D&D and I am tired of playing with newbies who have no idea how to play or make up all these rules.     How should I deal with this and when all the players don't know the rules and a huge number of players and all the issues above?</blockquote>

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