Help! RE: Spell-less Bard Class

[Poison Idea]

I was wondering if anybody could give me a bit of direction or advice on developing a balanced spell less bard class. In my home brew Goblins have taken on a persecuted gypsy role and thus are natural bards.

But they don't play music (mostly because they are too stupid to play instruments). Rather, Goblin celebratory rituals involve making rhythm and bass out of stomps and claps which are incorporated into dances.

They also don't cast magic as magic is the tool of Elves whom they've envied until recent times. Over time this envy developed into hatred which developed into superstitions about magic and Elves. So it's become a social taboo.

I'm not very good with game mechanics and would greatly appreciate any advice on how to balance out the bard class should a player wish to play one.

 

[Aus_Snow]

So this is for Pathfinder? Just making sure, as it's not uncommon for posts to be made in the wrong forum.

Either way, do you have any/much idea of what you'd like these Bards to be able to do? I don't mean the how, or mechanics, in other words. Just the what, even if it's in very vague or basic terms. If you do, it's one less step for anyone who might want to contribute.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I think this might be good to post in D&D 3e houserules as well.

As far as balance, what I'm hearing is that you want a character with some form of bardic music but no spells. This is an interesting idea, though I can't think of much precedent. Assuming you want to keep it an expert-y class and not full BAB, there are other basic things to consider upping. The most logical thing to me is bonus feats. I give bards a bonus feat at levels divisible by 4 (any feat; bards are generalists). You could do this or an even faster progression (2 and every 3 or 4 thereafter).

You could give them d8 HD/good fort if you'd think they're tougher than normal bards. You could up skill points to 8 because 6 isn't enough anyway. Beyond all these basic things, you're saying they're based on movement and dance so I'd try to find some new class abilities based on that (fast movement, maybe look at swashbuckler, monk, or dervish or other PrCs for higher-level abilities/subs for bardic music that doesn't work like countersong). Kalamar Player's Guide has a 'Basirian Dancer', which casts spelss but might give you some ideas.

All in all, totally redesigning the class like this would take some effort but could be interesting.

 

[Poison Idea]

Yeah, this is for pathfinder. Well, I would assume based on the homebrew that a Goblin Bard's primary purpose would be that of negotiator. Their culture is purely barter based with money being another cultural taboo. It's a strictly goods exchanged for other goods system, so they're natural negotiators.

I don't want to take the support away from the class however and this is where my problem comes into play. Still giving the PC the option of supporting his party-mates in battle just not in a magical capacity.

Hmm, a good starting point Ahnehnois! I'll look into and start fiddling with what you've suggested already. We should be play testing the class very soon so I'm hoping that'll help trim the fat, so to speak.

 

[pawsplay]

Kingdoms of Kalamar had a dancer class, maybe that would provide some inspiration.

 

[Felix]

Let me preface this by saying that I usually look for solutions within the base classes before expanding to .alt mechanics.

What about the Rogue class?

The skillset is entirely there, with Perform, Diplomacy, Linguistics, Sleight of Hand, and the tricky stuff that a Bard has. They have the same light-armor smaller weapon combination stuff. If their combat style is one of mutual support, then group tactics with flanking will work very well for them - they'll be aiding one another with flanking bonuses, made easily with their 30 ft move even as small creatures. You could even make use of the Aid Another mechanic.

Is this for a PC or an NPC? If its for NPCs, then I recommend not bothering with finding another class: simply portray them as negotiating gypsy like bardish characters, up to the point of even having them chant/dance/stomp in combat. It's not like the players know there's no in-game effect. And it'll surprise the pants off them when you start rolling Sneak Attack d6s.

If it's for a PC, well, yeah: that one's harder to play off. Were I DMing, I'd say that the PC was special and was blessed with magic where his other (In-game) Bard / (Metagame) Rogue buddies couldn't cast. That's if he wants to play a bard. If he doesn't want to play a bard, maybe Rogue/Fighter would work for him?