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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 2353103" data-attributes="member: 5777">You have said this repeatidly, but just because you can repeat it over and over does not make it true. It is still just as false now as when you first said it.Also, if you want to discuss tomes feel free, I have not been discussing a vop useing tomes at all, at any time. Another strawman you have come up with. I did say that having the bonus on them should count against their wealth as though they had used a tome, but that is no where near the same thing.Vop characters have the same wealth guidelines as anyone else, one of their feats say that they cannot gain material objects and gives bonuses to compensate. So, the character normally cannot use any of this personal wealth. However, the bonuses are 'not' items, it does 'not' take items to get the bonuses, and at no time would the vow be broken by getting or having them.So lets see here. Lets say that the king wants to grant a boon to each of the party members for some service rendered. He gives each of the party memebers an item of some value. What you are saying here is that the characters must pay the king for the item in order to get it.Nope, I dont buy it. That doesnt make any sense regarding the rules or how the game is normally played. In the example above you could easily replace 'item' with 'spell' or whatever else you like.There are price guidelines for what npcs normally charge to cast a spell, this is true. There are also guidelines for equipment.However, it is possible to mitigate these costs in other ways, or pay in different ways, not all payments are in coin.Say that the character had been donating his share of the treasure to his church for his entire carear. Over the course of say 30 levels he has given them the equivalent of 50 million gp worth of treasure. As a reward for his noble sacrifices to their cause, including monetary wealth, they decide to grant him a +5 inherant bonus to each of his stats.Does this seem plausible? Feasible? There are costs, lots of them. Every character 'could' get this boon given the proper circumstances, but not many will choose to do so.Just because someone does not have money to pay with does not mean that payment cannot be made in some form or another. Again, barter is possible. Again, favors happen.If you wish to hand wave it away by saying, 'but he cant hold coins!' that is your deal. I dont give the character a pile of X amount of money and say, 'ok, now find merchants to buy things from', I give them a set amount of exp and the guidelines in the dmg. If a character spends some feats to disallow items fine, if this allows him to use all of his character wealth (virtual though it may be) on some things that are not items great, but they had better be a good reason for it in his background.Character wealth is not all about the times or money or those such things. It is a general guideline about how much extra power one can have and there are guidelines about how to 'spend' it. Just because the character has never touched a gold piece in his life does not mean he cannot have items of value, just like it does not mean he cannot have some spells on him.</blockquote>

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