Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Help with a Power Gamer [Pathfinder]
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 5949424" data-attributes="member: 45197"><p>Hiya.</p><p> </p><p> I think you're heading in the wrong direction to try and curtail that kind of min/max behaviour. The bottom line of it is that he's doing this to get attention and have others oooh and aaaaahh at how "kewl" he is. He may not even be aware of it himself...but you did mention he is a GM, so maybe he's used to being "the focus of attention". Anyway, to quote "Joshua" (the computer from War Games): <em>The only winning move is, not to play."</em></p><p> </p><p> I had to do this two sessions in a row waaaaaay back in the late 80's when I was DM'ing. One player was horrible for 'min/maxing' his guys to the point of minor cheating (call it..."selective rules remembering"). Anyway, the way I got him out of that habit was to simply not play that game. When monsters attacked him, I'd pick up some dice, roll them and then say "He misses", and move on to the next guy...sometimes not really even looking at the dice. When he attacked an orc, before he rolled the die I'd blurt out "You kill him" and immediately move on to the next guy. Eventually he got annoyed and said "You're not even rolling!". I followed that up with a handfull of d20 rolls and said "OK, there. I rolled for the next 7 attacks against you. I'll tell you if you get hit". Needless to say, each of the next 7 attacks were even quicker with a simple "They attack you and miss...Next!". He was doubley perturbed about me not letting him roll his stupendous damage to hit the orc, for example. When his minimum damage is enought to kill the beasty 4 times over, it's pointless.</p><p> </p><p> What was the result? He got bored <em>very</em> quickly...and not a triffle bit miffed. After the second game I confronted him about me "sensing he wasn't having much fun". I basically pointed out the absurdity of his character, and showed him all the bad guys they fought so he could see just how nigh-pointless it was for us to waste our time watching him roll and kill things. There was zero 'excitment' for us watching the inevitable, so I decided to just forego all that bordom and move on to people who *could* miss or not kill in a single hit. He took it to heart and realized that it was kinda silly.</p><p> </p><p> He made a new guy and since that day has had more or less 'normal' characters who may excell at one particular thing...but are no where *near* the min/max'ed monsters he used to make. He enjoys the story and background of his characters more than anything now. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p> </p><p> So...after that long-winded brain purge...I suggest doing something similar. Don't 'bother' rolling or just roll mass dice. Don't let him roll damage, just say "You kill it". Make blanket assumptions about skill checks for him..."Everyone make a Climb check at DC 15...except you. Don't bother, you make it"...when he complains, shoot him a sarcastic/annoyed look and say..."Oooo...ok...fine. Roll..." And when he rolls 12 and adds his +18, say (with sarcastic emphasis) "Didja' make it? ... ...". </p><p> </p><p> In my experience, the only thing that catoring encounters to challenge this kind of player/character is going to lead everyone else in the group to try and min/max themselves in order to feel special and cool too. By hand-waving and otherwise 'assumingly gloss-over' the uber-PC, everyone in the group (sans the affected player) is going to see their characters as interesting and cool and the 'uber-PC' as lame.</p><p> </p><p> If that doesn't work...just outright cheat and have something FAR superior to him kick his ass EVERY SINGLE ENCOUNTER. Either he'll quit in disgust, or start to make 'normal' characters simply because taking 4 days to make a new uber-PC isn't worth it anymore if he dies in the first 3 minutes of play. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p> </p><p>^_^</p><p> </p><p>Paul L. Ming</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pming, post: 5949424, member: 45197"] Hiya. I think you're heading in the wrong direction to try and curtail that kind of min/max behaviour. The bottom line of it is that he's doing this to get attention and have others oooh and aaaaahh at how "kewl" he is. He may not even be aware of it himself...but you did mention he is a GM, so maybe he's used to being "the focus of attention". Anyway, to quote "Joshua" (the computer from War Games): [i]The only winning move is, not to play."[/i] I had to do this two sessions in a row waaaaaay back in the late 80's when I was DM'ing. One player was horrible for 'min/maxing' his guys to the point of minor cheating (call it..."selective rules remembering"). Anyway, the way I got him out of that habit was to simply not play that game. When monsters attacked him, I'd pick up some dice, roll them and then say "He misses", and move on to the next guy...sometimes not really even looking at the dice. When he attacked an orc, before he rolled the die I'd blurt out "You kill him" and immediately move on to the next guy. Eventually he got annoyed and said "You're not even rolling!". I followed that up with a handfull of d20 rolls and said "OK, there. I rolled for the next 7 attacks against you. I'll tell you if you get hit". Needless to say, each of the next 7 attacks were even quicker with a simple "They attack you and miss...Next!". He was doubley perturbed about me not letting him roll his stupendous damage to hit the orc, for example. When his minimum damage is enought to kill the beasty 4 times over, it's pointless. What was the result? He got bored [i]very[/i] quickly...and not a triffle bit miffed. After the second game I confronted him about me "sensing he wasn't having much fun". I basically pointed out the absurdity of his character, and showed him all the bad guys they fought so he could see just how nigh-pointless it was for us to waste our time watching him roll and kill things. There was zero 'excitment' for us watching the inevitable, so I decided to just forego all that bordom and move on to people who *could* miss or not kill in a single hit. He took it to heart and realized that it was kinda silly. He made a new guy and since that day has had more or less 'normal' characters who may excell at one particular thing...but are no where *near* the min/max'ed monsters he used to make. He enjoys the story and background of his characters more than anything now. :) So...after that long-winded brain purge...I suggest doing something similar. Don't 'bother' rolling or just roll mass dice. Don't let him roll damage, just say "You kill it". Make blanket assumptions about skill checks for him..."Everyone make a Climb check at DC 15...except you. Don't bother, you make it"...when he complains, shoot him a sarcastic/annoyed look and say..."Oooo...ok...fine. Roll..." And when he rolls 12 and adds his +18, say (with sarcastic emphasis) "Didja' make it? ... ...". In my experience, the only thing that catoring encounters to challenge this kind of player/character is going to lead everyone else in the group to try and min/max themselves in order to feel special and cool too. By hand-waving and otherwise 'assumingly gloss-over' the uber-PC, everyone in the group (sans the affected player) is going to see their characters as interesting and cool and the 'uber-PC' as lame. If that doesn't work...just outright cheat and have something FAR superior to him kick his ass EVERY SINGLE ENCOUNTER. Either he'll quit in disgust, or start to make 'normal' characters simply because taking 4 days to make a new uber-PC isn't worth it anymore if he dies in the first 3 minutes of play. ;) ^_^ Paul L. Ming [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Help with a Power Gamer [Pathfinder]
Top