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<blockquote data-quote="The Souljourner" data-source="post: 1380483" data-attributes="member: 1622">Barbarians make crappy tanks.&nbsp; They have really really crappy AC which is only worsened by rage.&nbsp; Sure, they dish out damage for the one or two rounds they stay up, but since every single attack is going to hit them, they take a ton of damage too.At low level, decent AC will stop 90% of monsters from hitting you, whereas they'll hit the barbarian every time, and the extra 2 or 4 hitpoints he has won't mean a thing after the first hit that would have missed the AC tank.&nbsp; And it just gets worse as you go up.&nbsp; Barbarians aren't tanks, they are melee monsters that eat up all the cleric's healing spells.&nbsp; Be kind to your cleric, bring someone with fullplate and a shield.For 8th level, nothing beats a dwarven fighter 4/paladin 3/dwarven defender 1 as a tank.&nbsp; Immune to fear and disease.&nbsp; Gets to add his charisma bonus to saves (yes the one below has only 14 charisma... think about a cloak of charisma!&nbsp; It's a free +3 to all your saves that no one else will want).&nbsp; Gets 42+7d10+1d12 hitpoints, plus has 21 AC before magic items.&nbsp; Compare that to the raging barbarian who has 16AC while raging if he's lucky.Let's see.. 42 pointsStr 16 - 10 - becomes 18 with two stat raisesCon 16 - 10 - becomes 18Dex 13 - 5Int 10 - 2Wis 13 - 5Cha 16 - 10 - becomes 14I have pretty much this exact character right now.&nbsp; He totally rocks.&nbsp; Craploads of hitpoints, massive AC.. and you can't just ignore him, because of attacks of opportunity and the like.&nbsp; Sure, if you're flying around in the open, he's at a disadvantage, but if you're ever in a dungeon, there's no one else you want on the front line.And the great thing is, he doesn't require constant healing, so the cleric can concentrate on fighting instead of healing that dumb@$$ barbarian who just took 90 damage again.-The SouljournerP.S. Legildur is right... you haven't lost access to the feat, you just can't use it right now.&nbsp; There's a big difference.&nbsp; He still *has* expertise, he just can't use it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="The Souljourner, post: 1380483, member: 1622"] Barbarians make crappy tanks. They have really really crappy AC which is only worsened by rage. Sure, they dish out damage for the one or two rounds they stay up, but since every single attack is going to hit them, they take a ton of damage too. At low level, decent AC will stop 90% of monsters from hitting you, whereas they'll hit the barbarian every time, and the extra 2 or 4 hitpoints he has won't mean a thing after the first hit that would have missed the AC tank. And it just gets worse as you go up. Barbarians aren't tanks, they are melee monsters that eat up all the cleric's healing spells. Be kind to your cleric, bring someone with fullplate and a shield. For 8th level, nothing beats a dwarven fighter 4/paladin 3/dwarven defender 1 as a tank. Immune to fear and disease. Gets to add his charisma bonus to saves (yes the one below has only 14 charisma... think about a cloak of charisma! It's a free +3 to all your saves that no one else will want). Gets 42+7d10+1d12 hitpoints, plus has 21 AC before magic items. Compare that to the raging barbarian who has 16AC while raging if he's lucky. Let's see.. 42 points Str 16 - 10 - becomes 18 with two stat raises Con 16 - 10 - becomes 18 Dex 13 - 5 Int 10 - 2 Wis 13 - 5 Cha 16 - 10 - becomes 14 I have pretty much this exact character right now. He totally rocks. Craploads of hitpoints, massive AC.. and you can't just ignore him, because of attacks of opportunity and the like. Sure, if you're flying around in the open, he's at a disadvantage, but if you're ever in a dungeon, there's no one else you want on the front line. And the great thing is, he doesn't require constant healing, so the cleric can concentrate on fighting instead of healing that dumb@$$ barbarian who just took 90 damage again. -The Souljourner P.S. Legildur is right... you haven't lost access to the feat, you just can't use it right now. There's a big difference. He still *has* expertise, he just can't use it. [/QUOTE]

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